Sprint Races OR something MUCH more Entertaining ?

[notsofast]

Teams shouldn't be rewarded multiple years in a row for a single invention. If cars were to become "open source" at the end of each season, it would force the winning teams to invent something new if they want to win again next season. (Credit: @Zynerji proposed it a few years ago in another thread.)

I'd like to see that but it would create a massive issue with Return of Investment. Teams probably wouldn't be willing to invest in F1 if their IP would just be shared with everyone at the end of the year.
Best case scenario it would have the opposite effect with manufacturers finding it easier to join F1 because they'd have last year's winning car as a base to start, but it would probably have the first of the possible outcomes I've mentioned.

Commercial parts could be excluded provided that they are available for purchase by any team that wants them. If you're a supplier, you get to keep your IP and can make a profit from it. If you're a constructor, you build a car for one season, and you get to participate in the constructors championship. Engine manufacturers might very well choose to become suppliers. I think that would be ok, as long as they don't make bespoke components for any one team.

[Slo Poke]

Sprint races could have worked better 15 years ago when the cars were actually sprint cars, but they're now pseudo-endurance machines and it just doesn't make sense. I say stick with the existing format if the belief is that the 2022 cars will deliver on the promise of more exciting races.

JJn9128:
The only way the 2022 cars will deliver on promise, is if the instigator or one of its henchmen, has made a Top Secret trip to Italy in order to talk Pirelli into slipping durable, race worthy rubber onto the cars under the guise of fancy but useless bodywork.
False kudos I have Learnt to expect, especially from whence it comes!

[Big Tea]

Sprint races could have worked better 15 years ago when the cars were actually sprint cars, but they're now pseudo-endurance machines and it just doesn't make sense. I say stick with the existing format if the belief is that the 2022 cars will deliver on the promise of more exciting races.

JJn9128:
The only way the 2022 cars will deliver on promise, is if the instigator or one of its henchmen, has made a Top Secret trip to Italy in order to talk Pirelli into slipping durable, race worthy rubber onto the cars under the guise of fancy but useless bodywork.
False kudos I have Learnt to expect, especially from whence it comes!

They had to slow the cars down as the tyres could not handle it, then stick more weight on. I don't think they would be doing anything like that

[Slo Poke]

Sprint races could have worked better 15 years ago when the cars were actually sprint cars, but they're now pseudo-endurance machines and it just doesn't make sense. I say stick with the existing format if the belief is that the 2022 cars will deliver on the promise of more exciting races.

JJn9128:
The only way the 2022 cars will deliver on promise, is if the instigator or one of its henchmen, has made a Top Secret trip to Italy in order to talk Pirelli into slipping durable, race worthy rubber onto the cars under the guise of fancy but useless bodywork.
False kudos I have Learnt to expect, especially from whence it comes!

They had to slow the cars down as the tyres could not handle it, then stick more weight on. I don't think they would be doing anything like that

Blimey Big Tea that was a quick response. Also, you now have me at something of a disadvantage! When did they have to slow the cars down and how, plus, where did they stick more weight on?

[Big Tea]

JJn9128:
The only way the 2022 cars will deliver on promise, is if the instigator or one of its henchmen, has made a Top Secret trip to Italy in order to talk Pirelli into slipping durable, race worthy rubber onto the cars under the guise of fancy but useless bodywork.
False kudos I have Learnt to expect, especially from whence it comes!

They had to slow the cars down as the tyres could not handle it, then stick more weight on. I don't think they would be doing anything like that

Blimey Big Tea that was a quick response. Also, you now have me at something of a disadvantage! When did they have to slow the cars down and how, plus, where did they stick more weight on?

Things like the removal of floor area, and the proposed weight for next year? I am not interrogating you really just having a quiet moan to myself, but in public

[El Scorchio]

I think whatever they do with Sprint Races, they need to be independent of the main Grand Prix.

I have no issue with the format used on Sprint weekends so far (though I could quite happily lose the contentious Lewis and Max crashes lol) BUT I think Sprint would be much more entertaining if it didn't affect the Sunday grid. I think we'd have seen more of an effort from Lewis to get past Lando in the Sprint if it wasn't for the risk of affecting the Grand Prix itself.

Maybe then we could have a longer FP1 on Friday morning. Quali Friday afternoon. FP2 on Saturday morning and then Sprint on Saturday afternoon with a grid decided based on fastest lap in practice or some such thing. Then Sunday stays as it is.

Completely agree. In Italy there was so little incentive for Hamilton to try and pass Norris unless it was an absolute slam dunk of a move. Why on earth would you put your car in any jeopardy in his position? (Likewise Verstappen had zero incentive to try and move on Bottas- one point is totally not worth it) Unless it's easy, you just consolidate rather than risk being back of the grid for the sake of moving up one spot. That's the huge issue with the sprints. Only those woefully out of position from Friday, or mid grid with literally nothing to lose will try anything bold. Other than that, by F1 standards it's basically tiptoeing around to preserve what you've got and staying out of trouble.

The whole sprint weekend is a s***** mish mash and compromise. They need to at least change things around to give it a bit more point. Maybe let them alter the setup of the cars from Friday to Saturday so we can see what they can do in pure 1 lap trim and in non compromised race trim. As it is now, Saturday practice is largely pointless as well.

The only real winners I've seen from it so far are those with a financial stake, who get more money. Corporate hospitality, TV, FOM. The only plus is that the circuits can make a bit more money for themselves. They are the only ones who really need it, and boy do they need it. Don't think it's a coincidence that the races so far were Silverstone and Monza- two tracks with problems. If it benefits them, then I'll live with it. Otherwise it's a stupid format. Are they really planning SEVEN next year? Pfft. It's just cynical money grabbing.

[SiLo]

Or better yet, Spring race in reverse championship order, with no qualifying for it. So they still get FP1, FP2 on Friday, actual qualifying and then sprint race on saturday, main event sunday.

[adrianjordan]

Here's an alternate race weekend idea for Sprint.

Friday morning: FP1
Friday evening: Sprint with grid in reverse championship order and a separate allocation of PU etc. Points awarded for top 6 as in the olden days.

Saturday morning: FP2 with no Parc Ferme rules between Friday and Saturday.
Saturday Afternoon: Qualifying as at present

Sunday: As at present.

[CMSMJ1]

If the Sprint is solely for entertainment and to keep a longer weekend viable then in my view it should be a race of the third/reserve drivers.

We get a race. We get entertainment and some massive desire from the pilots to want to perform.

Easy....

leave the Championship alone - qually Saturday and Race Sunday.

[El Scorchio]

Here's an alternate race weekend idea for Sprint.

Friday morning: FP1
Friday evening: Sprint with grid in reverse championship order and a separate allocation of PU etc. Points awarded for top 6 as in the olden days.

Saturday morning: FP2 with no Parc Ferme rules between Friday and Saturday.
Saturday Afternoon: Qualifying as at present

Sunday: As at present.

I like it, but then where's the incentive for anyone to watch in mainstream terms and for $$$, which let's face it is all the sprint races are about? It's highly unlikely the championship leaders will get into the points and all the casual viewers aren't really going to care about much else. How do TV companies and promoters spin it? 'Tune in for the unmissable sprint clash between Mazepin, Latifi, Russell and Schumacher!' I can see it having a niche interest but it would probably be a financial disaster. Ferrari, MB, RBR and McLaren aren't going to be going all out for the almost impossible dangling carrot of a single point. They'll just pootle around at the back in a glorified test scenario because there's no way they can make it through 2/3 of the field in 15-18 laps or so with no pit stops.

The likes of us would definitely watch it for a bit, and it may be a novelty/curiosity at first but I think people will just switch off the telly or not bother buying tickets for Saturday. Then again I see the sprint races as they are now going down that avenue anyway eventually. The points at stake are basically chump change and outside of a horrendous start like Hamilton had, there's literally no drama.

I do also like @CMSMJ1 idea of reserve or third drivers, but again, hardly anyone is going to watch.

[jjn9128]

Here's an alternate race weekend idea for Sprint.

Friday morning: FP1
Friday evening: Sprint with grid in reverse championship order and a separate allocation of PU etc. Points awarded for top 6 as in the olden days.

Saturday morning: FP2 with no Parc Ferme rules between Friday and Saturday.
Saturday Afternoon: Qualifying as at present

Sunday: As at present.

I quite like this. Certainly preferable to the current SPRINT format. Maybe I’d have grid order based of fp times or something. Or perhaps with a reverse element based on a randomly drawn position like btcc reverse grid races.

Or even have it as a separate sprint championship so nominate <10 GPs a year where they have 3 day weekends with the rest 2 days weekends. 30minute practice, 1 lap quali and sprint on a Friday.

[El Scorchio]

Here's an alternate race weekend idea for Sprint.

Friday morning: FP1
Friday evening: Sprint with grid in reverse championship order and a separate allocation of PU etc. Points awarded for top 6 as in the olden days.

Saturday morning: FP2 with no Parc Ferme rules between Friday and Saturday.
Saturday Afternoon: Qualifying as at present

Sunday: As at present.

I quite like this. Certainly preferable to the current SPRINT format. Maybe I’d have grid order based of fp times or something. Or perhaps with a reverse element based on a randomly drawn position like btcc reverse grid races.

Or even have it as a separate sprint championship so nominate <10 GPs a year where they have 3 day weekends with the rest 2 days weekends. 30minute practice, 1 lap quali and sprint on a Friday.

But don't you think any sprint championship will always be inferior to the actual championship, and seen as it's the same drivers in the same cars, it'll just be the same outcome unless there's some serious massaging? So will anyone really care about it? (Most casuals don't even care about the WCC already so would they about a secondary driver one?) I can't really think of a way you could organise it that wouldn't end up with the top teams and drivers winning it again over the course of a season, or if you rig it to put the slower cars at the front of the grid, then I think the contrivance will be a big turnoff. And we do have to accept the vast majority just want to see Ferraris, Red Bulls and Mercedes fighting at the front. They aren't going to get excited about two Haas and Williams cars holding up the rest of the field in a massive DRS train as long as they can.

It would also make the sport more expensive once more given the extra budget needed.

I just can't think of a single way that makes sprint races both exciting and meaningful. It seems that in order to do one, you have to more or less abandon the other.

[Big Tea]

What about an out and out time trial? Drivers released maybe 20 seconds apart and 2 sets 15 lap stints, reversed to equalise conditions? If you go out, you are out, and the following car gains a lap if obstructed. If you are caught, you are out too.

It could be difficult keeping the gap in the starts, but it could be spread over 2 hrs to keep the crowd entertained.

In other words, quali as it is now but out alone and not just hot lap then cool

[jjn9128]

What about an out and out time trial? Drivers released maybe 20 seconds apart and 2 sets 15 lap stints, reversed to equalise conditions? If you go out, you are out, and the following car gains a lap if obstructed. If you are caught, you are out too.

It could be difficult keeping the gap in the starts, but it could be spread over 2 hrs to keep the crowd entertained.

In other words, quali as it is now but out alone and not just hot lap then cool

<26 cars released every 20s wouldn't work around any circuit on the calendar

[jjn9128]

Here's an alternate race weekend idea for Sprint.

Friday morning: FP1
Friday evening: Sprint with grid in reverse championship order and a separate allocation of PU etc. Points awarded for top 6 as in the olden days.

Saturday morning: FP2 with no Parc Ferme rules between Friday and Saturday.
Saturday Afternoon: Qualifying as at present

Sunday: As at present.

I quite like this. Certainly preferable to the current SPRINT format. Maybe I’d have grid order based of fp times or something. Or perhaps with a reverse element based on a randomly drawn position like btcc reverse grid races.

Or even have it as a separate sprint championship so nominate <10 GPs a year where they have 3 day weekends with the rest 2 days weekends. 30minute practice, 1 lap quali and sprint on a Friday.

But don't you think any sprint championship will always be inferior to the actual championship, and seen as it's the same drivers in the same cars, it'll just be the same outcome unless there's some serious massaging? So will anyone really care about it? (Most casuals don't even care about the WCC already so would they about a secondary driver one?) I can't really think of a way you could organise it that wouldn't end up with the top teams and drivers winning it again over the course of a season, or if you rig it to put the slower cars at the front of the grid, then I think the contrivance will be a big turnoff. And we do have to accept the vast majority just want to see Ferraris, Red Bulls and Mercedes fighting at the front. They aren't going to get excited about two Haas and Williams cars holding up the rest of the field in a massive DRS train as long as they can.

It would also make the sport more expensive once more given the extra budget needed.

I just can't think of a single way that makes sprint races both exciting and meaningful. It seems that in order to do one, you have to more or less abandon the other.

Yeah but they're trying to make it so the sprint doesn't detract from the main race, but are still giving points.

The FIA wants more young driver running, maybe force one car on the Friday to be a young driver. I dunno. I think the sprint format sucks, but more are going to be coming no matter what we think, just trying to make the best of a bad idea.