Escalation in race and team threads

[coaster]

I used to visit 'forumulaone.com' before it went offline in 2008 and it was a pure fanboy site with live timing and it was often an unkind forum. It was a pretty grim place and im sure they went belly up for a while.

[Wouter]

Agree completely.

I think you grossly underestimate the effort that the mods put in here. I won't even try to estimate the number of PMs that pass around, and certainly no less to the long timers.

I don't want to belittle the mods effort in any way. It has just been invisible to me so far as I haven't been warned and the hostility in the topics is still there. There is only one conclusion to be drawn: it hasn't worked as we hoped. The solution is easy: 3 strikes is out. At least for a while...

What do you mean by: "The solution is simple: 3 strikes is out."

If it were that simple, not all F1 forums would face this problem. All moderators do their very best to make it as pleasant as possible.

[Tizz]

I think you grossly underestimate the effort that the mods put in here. I won't even try to estimate the number of PMs that pass around, and certainly no less to the long timers.

I don't want to belittle the mods effort in any way. It has just been invisible to me so far as I haven't been warned and the hostility in the topics is still there. There is only one conclusion to be drawn: it hasn't worked as we hoped. The solution is easy: 3 strikes is out. At least for a while...

What do you mean by: "The solution is simple: 3 strikes is out."

If it were that simple, not all F1 forums would face this problem. All moderators do their very best to make it as pleasant as possible.

If you get warned 3 times for similar issues, you get suspended a while. Having been a referee in almost 20 years I know that there is a point where talking no longer solves anything. That is exactly where we are. The problems we face will disappear just as fast as they arose once people get hold accountable for their behavior.

[Wouter]

I don't want to belittle the mods effort in any way. It has just been invisible to me so far as I haven't been warned and the hostility in the topics is still there. There is only one conclusion to be drawn: it hasn't worked as we hoped. The solution is easy: 3 strikes is out. At least for a while...

What do you mean by: "The solution is simple: 3 strikes is out."

If it were that simple, not all F1 forums would face this problem. All moderators do their very best to make it as pleasant as possible.

If you get warned 3 times for similar issues, you get suspended a while. Having been a referee in almost 20 years I know that there is a point where talking no longer solves anything. That is exactly where we are. The problems we face will disappear just as fast as they arose once people get hold accountable for their behavior.

However, that behavior is the problem. The person thinks that "his" driver is the best, praises him and never does anything wrong.
If it stayed that way, it would still be okay.
However, that person then finds it necessary to tear down the opponent, he makes the mistakes, he is a worse driver, and talks very derogatory about him.
All this to make his "own" driver looks better.
This person does not want to accept that after all these years there are other drivers, such as Lando, Max, Leclerc, who are also good and maybe even better.
This attitude provokes the fans of other drivers and the atmosphere becomes awful.

However, I see here lately that a lot has indeed been intervened by the moderators. A few of those people have adapted their way of posting, some were absent for a while.
Now the rest have to comment exclusively on their "own" driver. That creates much less resistance.

If this person continues to attack the opponent driver, remove him permanently from the forum after a few warnings.

[dans79]

However, that behavior is the problem. The person thinks that "his" driver is the best, praises him and never does anything wrong.
If it stayed that way, it would still be okay.
However, that person then finds it necessary to tear down the opponent, he makes the mistakes, he is a worse driver, and talks very derogatory about him.
All this to make his "own" driver looks better.

The below looks, like what you are complaining about above. It reads like the ageist comments thats we now see used to try and denigrate older drivers, such as Kimi, Fernando, Vettel, Hamilton!

This person does not want to accept that after all these years there are other drivers, such as Lando, Max, Leclerc, who are also good and maybe even better.
This attitude provokes the fans of other drivers and the atmosphere becomes awful.

[Wouter]

However, that behavior is the problem. The person thinks that "his" driver is the best, praises him and never does anything wrong.
If it stayed that way, it would still be okay.
However, that person then finds it necessary to tear down the opponent, he makes the mistakes, he is a worse driver, and talks very derogatory about him.
All this to make his "own" driver looks better.

The below looks, like what you are complaining about above. It reads like the ageist comments thats we now see used to try and denigrate older drivers, such as Kimi, Fernando, Vettel, Hamilton!

This person does not want to accept that after all these years there are other drivers, such as Lando, Max, Leclerc, who are also good and maybe even better.
This attitude provokes the fans of other drivers and the atmosphere becomes awful.

I think you're misinterpreting my post unless you're a fan of one of the older, more experienced drivers who won't accept
the arrival of a younger, promising and successful batch of drivers.

[TimW]

The fanboyism is not the real issue, it is just the most visible aspect.

We should all look in the mirror. If you feel that posts are very biased, and you feel an urge to respond, that most likely means you are quite biased/have a strong opinion yourself as well. People are far less neutral than they think they are. If you are truly neutral, you will probably not feel an urge to respond to biased posts.
E.g. If I post that Giovinazzi is good/bad, that will not trigger much. Simply because not many members are much concerned about him.

Also with offensive language, something only becomes offensive when someone takes offense in it. Like with toxicity, is it too much or are some members just being overly sensitive? With cultural differences, and the drawbacks of writing vs speech, things are easily understood different than they are meant. Something being meant light hearted is easily interpreted differently.

So the main thing is just think twice before you respond. Even in this thread you see repetitive posts, unnecessarily repeating the same opinion.

BTW on another forum I frequent there is the option to react to post with a like/thanks/smile/confused/etc emote. I like that option because people can voice their agreement/disagreement without posting. With the disabled up/downvoting in race threads, the only way to respond is by....posting

Edit: the thing is that we want response to our posts. Without response, it feels like a post is not being read. A well balanced post that people agree with may not get replies. With a like button or similar, the writer of such a post will still feel appreciated. Without this option, people may (unconsciously) put their posts stronger to provoke replies.

[dans79]

However, that behavior is the problem. The person thinks that "his" driver is the best, praises him and never does anything wrong.
If it stayed that way, it would still be okay.
However, that person then finds it necessary to tear down the opponent, he makes the mistakes, he is a worse driver, and talks very derogatory about him.
All this to make his "own" driver looks better.

The below looks, like what you are complaining about above. It reads like the ageist comments thats we now see used to try and denigrate older drivers, such as Kimi, Fernando, Vettel, Hamilton!

This person does not want to accept that after all these years there are other drivers, such as Lando, Max, Leclerc, who are also good and maybe even better.
This attitude provokes the fans of other drivers and the atmosphere becomes awful.

I think you're misinterpreting my post unless you're a fan of one of the older, more experienced drivers who won't accept
the arrival of a younger, promising and successful batch of drivers.

It shouldn't really matter who a person's a fan of. It is an issue though that certain individuals seem to think it's ok to insult or a slight fans of a driver, or a driver that they don't like every possible chance they get.

[coaster]

Maybe divide the forum into fan and tech zones? A different, younger set of moderaters for fans (most fans are young people) and tech zone for calmer and more level headed discussions.
Abusive repeat offenders could maybe be locked out of the tech zone?
Tech is why i visit, the sites name implies a tech focus, but money and advertising means all must be welcomed, fans included.

[dans79]

I don't get it, why do so many of you think the answer is to just segregate off problematic users?

The forum has very clear rules that everyone should be made to abide by. If they can't or won't abide by them they should be booted from the forum.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5009

[Tizz]

I don't get it, why do so many of you think the answer is to just segregate off problematic users?

The forum has very clear rules that everyone should be made to abide by. If they can't or won't abide by them they should be booted from the forum.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5009

Agree. But let's not make this bigger than it is. If the mods pick just a few extremes I'm pretty sure the problem will disappear just as fast as it arose.

[Stu]

I don't get it, why do so many of you think the answer is to just segregate off problematic users?

The forum has very clear rules that everyone should be made to abide by. If they can't or won't abide by them they should be booted from the forum.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5009

“…kill them…”



Quote from one of the best comedy shows ever!!!

[hUirEYExbN]

I don't get it, why do so many of you think the answer is to just segregate off problematic users?
The forum has very clear rules that everyone should be made to abide by. If they can't or won't abide by them they should be booted from the forum.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5009

“…kill them…”

Quote from one of the best comedy shows ever!!!

Quote from 20% of all media ever. You need to be more specific with something like that.

[wesley123]

BTW on another forum I frequent there is the option to react to post with a like/thanks/smile/confused/etc emote. I like that option because people can voice their agreement/disagreement without posting. With the disabled up/downvoting in race threads, the only way to respond is by....posting

Edit: the thing is that we want response to our posts. Without response, it feels like a post is not being read. A well balanced post that people agree with may not get replies. With a like button or similar, the writer of such a post will still feel appreciated. Without this option, people may (unconsciously) put their posts stronger to provoke replies.

These are some excellent points. Without the ability to up/downvote there is more incentive to tell someone why he/she is wrong.

I believe the rating system was to encourage and promote technical discussions. Upvote for something that contributes, and a downvote for something that is the opposite. This was also the reason why it was disabled in the race threads.

It might be a good idea to re-enable it on the whole forum. Posts that are deemed a contribution will get upvoted, and the trolls will just get downvoted by everyone. Sure, there might be some misuse of the system, but in the end it'll balance itself out.

[nzjrs]

BTW on another forum I frequent there is the option to react to post with a like/thanks/smile/confused/etc emote. I like that option because people can voice their agreement/disagreement without posting. With the disabled up/downvoting in race threads, the only way to respond is by....posting

Edit: the thing is that we want response to our posts. Without response, it feels like a post is not being read. A well balanced post that people agree with may not get replies. With a like button or similar, the writer of such a post will still feel appreciated. Without this option, people may (unconsciously) put their posts stronger to provoke replies.

These are some excellent points. Without the ability to up/downvote there is more incentive to tell someone why he/she is wrong.

I believe the rating system was to encourage and promote technical discussions. Upvote for something that contributes, and a downvote for something that is the opposite. This was also the reason why it was disabled in the race threads.

It might be a good idea to re-enable it on the whole forum. Posts that are deemed a contribution will get upvoted, and the trolls will just get downvoted by everyone. Sure, there might be some misuse of the system, but in the end it'll balance itself out.

These are good ideas. I think the Voting mechanics are fine, but emoji reactions in addition might be good way to funnel some of the pointless replies into a channel that's not so polluting.