Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
23 is madness...this will not promote better racing or encourage new teams. Basically, working for an F1 team's race staff will be like a stint in the military.
Away from home a lot, yes, but the Parc ferme rules means the mechanics get an easier time of it these days. Gone are the all-nighters at every event that used to be the norm.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
I would have loved to see Mugello back on the calendar.
I’m surprised as well Canada/Miami weren’t back to back. Seems like a lot of excess travel. Italy>US>Spain - Azerbaijan > Canada>UK. Miami is tight because of the NFL season so it might have been scheduling, but who knows.
Liberty is going to squirrel this thing. F1 should be testing in Feb, and then a race every 2 weeks until a 4 week break in August...then start up every other weekend thru Oct.
23 is madness...this will not promote better racing or encourage new teams. Basically, working for an F1 team's race staff will be like a stint in the military.
Soon we will be able to enjoy Monday Night GP's...with multiple events each weekend
They don't want new teams. I saw on twitter basically a bunch of staff have already handed in notice. Unfortunately with F1 there are so many wanting in that they're quickly replaced, so there's no need for any introspection about why.
#aerogandalf "There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica
Isn't it just being crammed in because of the football world cup? The year after it will be more spread out so there shouldn't need to be so many double/triple headers.
I don't like the idea of more sprint races, 3 is more than enough, or 3 too many imo.
I don't like the idea of more sprint races, 3 is more than enough, or 3 too many imo.
I agree!
Can we ask here as a straw poll, now we have seen them, how many people prefer to watch weekends WITH the sprint?
I realise it us not going to be anywhere close to accurate.
My vote, No sprint races is about right, but it was right to try it
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
I have no issue with the Sprint race as long as it has no impact on the actual GP. So it has its own starting order and it has no impact of the starting grid for the GP.
Maybe the starting grid for the Sprint could be based on fastest lap times in the previous GP.....
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren
Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻♂️
I'd rather just see a sprint race that is reverse championship order and the result has no impact on qualifying or the race. But that's only if they keep it. Ideally they would just drop the idea because we don't need it.
I don't like the idea of more sprint races, 3 is more than enough, or 3 too many imo.
I agree!
Can we ask here as a straw poll, now we have seen them, how many people prefer to watch weekends WITH the sprint?
I realise it us not going to be anywhere close to accurate.
My vote, No sprint races is about right, but it was right to try it
The sprint race as qualifying for the main race is a gimmick. It should be dropped in my opinion.
I can see some fun in having a separate sprint race that isn't part of the normal qualifying / race process. But the issue with these sprint races is the risk / reward for the front runners - the back markers can throw caution to the wind in the hope that they can get a better start on Sunday safe in the knowledge that if they mess it up they lose nothing. The front runners can't afford to do that so they just drive as conservatively as they can get away with.
How about a sprint race that carries points for the whole field from 20 points down to 1 point? That means that the backmarkers have double the reward for attacking in the sprint - points and places in the main race. Nothing will force the front runners to risk their weekend for an extra point on Saturday, but it will make the back of the field more interesting.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
1 Jeddah (Asaudi Arabia) [ 4-6 march ]
2 Sakhir (Bahrain) * [ 11-13 march ]
3 Losail (Qatar) [ 18-20 march ]
4 Yas Marina (Abu Dhabi) [ 1-3 april ]
5 Marina Bay (Singapore) * [ 8-10 april ]
6 Melbourne (Australia) [ 15-17 april ]
7 Suzuka (Japan) [ 29 april-1 may ]
8 Miami (USA) * [ 13-15 may ]
9 Montreal (Canada) [ 20-22 may ]
10 Silverstone (UK) [ 3-5 june ]
11 Zandvoort (Netherlands) * [ 10-12 june ]
12 Spa-Francorchamps (Belgium) [ 17-19 june ]
13 Le Castallet (France) [ 1-3 july ]
14 Barcelona (Spain) * [ 8-10 july ]
15 Monte Carlo (Monaco) [ 22-24 july ]
16 Monza (Italie) [ 29-31 july ]
3 weeks of SUMMER OFF SEASON
17 San Marino (Imola) * [ 26-28 august ]
18 Hockenheim (Germany) [ 2-4 september ]
19 Spielberg (Austria) [ 16-18 september ]
20 Budapest (Hungary) * [ 23-25 september ]
21 Istanbul (Turkey) [ 7-9 october ]
22 Sochi (Russia) [ 14-16 october ]
23 Baku (Azerbaijan) * [ 21-23 october ]
24 Austin (USA) [ 4-6 november ]
25 Mexico City (Mexico) [ 11-13 november ]
26 Sao Paulo (Brazil) * [ 18 - 20 november ]
* Includes sprint race
Additional points or cups/medals could be awarded for the top 3 drivers (and teams) winning the Euro-cups, the Middle-East cups, Asia Cups, N-America cups, etc.
So for example:
Let's make it a Middle East, Asia & Oceania Cup - this concists of the first 7 GP's. The top 3 of points achieved during this stage will be the winners of the first Cup. The drivers and teams will get special trophies for this, and be awarded points:
winner: 3 points, 2nd : 2 points, 3rd : 1 point.
Then we will start in the North, Central & South American cup, but there are only 2 GP's at the start, untill the circus returns there after Baku for the final 3 GP's. So this cup will remain open.
Then we will start in the EuroCup, where the UK will be included (Geographic cups).
A total of 13 races will be held during the 'Eurocup' series.
At Baku, the EuroCup series will finish and as such, the winner and points will be awarded of those 13 GP's (In other words, the AsiaCup and AmeriCup points will not count, so only the points of races 10 till 23).
The winner of this cup will get 3 points, 2nd 2 points, and last 1 point.
Then we will return to the American-Cup, with the final 3 GP's (COTA, MEX, BRA).
At the finish of Brazil, the winner of this cup will be decided, as the points of races of Canada, Miami, Austin, Mexico and Brazil will be counted.
The winner of this Cup - again - will get 3 points, 2nd gets 2, 3rd gets 1 point.
This means that any driver is able to make an extra 9 of points during the season.
It also means that one driver might have accumalated more points in the US cup than the other.
It would make the total of points that could be achieved (under the condition that sprint cups will have a top 3 points given of 3,2 and 1 point) as such:
650 points of the total 26 races (wins).
27 points of the total 9 sprint races (wins).
26 points of the total 26 fastest lap awards.
9 points of the total 3 world cups (wins).
meaning there are a total of 712 points to be achieved for a driver should he fully dominate everything.
Offcourse, since the EuroCup has 14 races, and the AsiaCup 7, and the AmericaCup 5, double points could be awarded for the races in those GP's, or the Cup points (or the Sprint / Fastest Lap points) if the concensus would be that the differences in races would make it unfair in points. Even though that in itself makes it all the more interesting.
The interesting aspect will be that there are now many variables that could decide the championship:
Due to there being an even amount of races, the Main races and fastest lap points can get two drivers fighting for the championship 'evenly' on equal points on a tie.
The uneven amount of sprint races however can greatly change this: if one of those two drivers win one more sprint race than the other, this could decide the championship by 1 point.
But, at the same time, there also is the uneven amount of points to be achieved during the world cup award points.
This would mean that the championship could also be decided by the world cup.
At the same time, both drivers could come back to a draw, if one driver wins 1 sprint race more than the other, but the other winning 1 World Cup more than the other.
Then the tie would be decided imo by the driver that won the most World Cups, making this a far more essential part of Formula 1.
IMO this would make an interesting extra to the calender. 26 races might be a lot, but with 52 weeks in a year, let's be honest, it's just half a year of weekends.
Races can start from the beginning of March untill beginning November. Should be warm enough for acceptable race circumstances, and big enough of a timespan to have travel time, rest time, and so on. Budget Cap can be adjusted to house sufficient personel.
there can be put a non-race weekend after each triple-header, and when switching between Cups.
offseason can be three weeks off.
During a racing season, this means we will have no more than three weeks of non-racing interval between any GP.
Right now we have racing from late march till mid December.
yes, it's pretty tight packed with the races following eachother, that's true, but even then there is space for getting decent in between. especially if the logical way of travelling is concidered, it will make things a lot easier and lighter.
there's plenty of people getting way, way less paid like cops, security, hospital care, etc. that work many more weeks and weekends with varying hours including night shifts, and they get paid way, way less with way less prospects.
I would argue that travelling crew members get paid quite well so it's good pay, adventurous, and so on. they have to pay rent, but when they're not at home, they don't consume their bills as much either, and the teams pay their consume during work.
there are only 4 triple headers.
Again, these are 26 GP's (30 if you combine the distance of sprint races), but even then there's still plenty of room.
You can easily add 2 or 3 gp's to this calendar, or scratch one european race like switch between Imola and Monza between the seasons, and then you have 4 different venue's to the above added. China and Vietnam can be held before and after Japan, You could add another continent in the form of Morocco a week after Spain, and 'all' it does is add 3 weeks to the calendar and cause 2 more triple headers.
Even another US GP can be added to the timespan of Miami and Canada, like a Los Angeles or Las Vegas (Night) GP.
Last edited by Manoah2u on 18 Oct 2021, 17:25, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
You can but the team personnel aren't robots - they need down time too. You need at least one decent break somewhere in there as we currently have with the mandatory shutdown. They work their butts off during the off-season too, don't forget.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
You can but the team personnel aren't robots - they need down time too. You need at least one decent break somewhere in there as we currently have with the mandatory shutdown. They work their butts off during the off-season too, don't forget.
i'll remind you that so do staff in security, police, and healthcare - all with way less pay, less days off, AND including altering night shifts. How about Flight Crew especially now during the Pandemic.
There's way too much complaining and diva-behaviour.
It would also increace job availability as if it would 'really' be 'too much', then you can simply add a bunch of people and alternate between these crewmembers. Just increase the budget cieling or make sure staff salary is excempt, and look how you can make things happen.
If the drivers think it's too much, then perhaps F1 and giant salaries simply is not for them. Additionally, there could even be imposed a system where reserve drivers get to rache 3 or 4 gp's during a season. Young drivers get a new chance, and established drivers get a chance to rest. For example, Hulkenberg (reserve driver for Mercedes) would race for Bottas before the summer break, and he would race for Hamilton after the summer break (this season), and perhaps also drive for Vettel at one of the AsiaCup GP's, and for Stroll on one of the AmericaCups.
Albon would drive for Verstappen before the summer break and for Perez after the summer break, and for Tsunoda on one of the AmericaCups and for Gasly on one of the Asiacups.
Plenty of options to work with - IF people complain too much, and quite frankly, there is already too much complaining compared to the average joe's job schedules.
If you look at what F1 gets you then that in particular should be enough for people to stop complaining.
Last edited by Manoah2u on 18 Oct 2021, 17:42, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
You can but the team personnel aren't robots - they need down time too. You need at least one decent break somewhere in there as we currently have with the mandatory shutdown. They work their butts off during the off-season too, don't forget.
One option here would be to have 2 complete teams of 'pit crew' (as Manoah2u says) and make an allowance for it within the spending limit.
Other that that though the venues are not going to want the race if it clashes with a national event, or it is not always the best option to have the closest venues on consecutive weeks as some of the heavy kit is scheduled for a race in a few weeks time as it could not be ready in time if it was transported immediately as it could take days to tare down and days to rebuild, plus travel time and cost of fly v ship.
The other 'resource' is marshals. They are not going to be able to take a few weeks off work so would need permanent staff to travel with the rosta, which would be expensive as they have to be paid and accommodated. 'Local' marshals have much knowledge of the track they work and a permeant crew may never get this.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
You can but the team personnel aren't robots - they need down time too. You need at least one decent break somewhere in there as we currently have with the mandatory shutdown. They work their butts off during the off-season too, don't forget.
i'll remind you that so do staff in security, police, and healthcare - all with way less pay, less days off, AND including altering night shifts. How about Flight Crew especially now during the Pandemic.
There's way too much complaining and diva-behaviour.
It would also increace job availability as if it would 'really' be 'too much', then you can simply add a bunch of people and alternate between these crewmembers. Just increase the budget cieling or make sure staff salary is excempt, and look how you can make things happen.
Yes, but those jobs have down time periods and vacation time. Flight crew especially get lots of down time because they're strictly regulated.
You would have to increase the budget, as you say, or make some other arrangement to ensure sufficient staff always available to cover those on vacation periods.
Interesting that you consider people wanting time off to be complaining and diva-behaviour. It's called work-life balance. It's just a job, nothing more.
Edit: I see you've edited your original proposal and added some down time. Good thing. One must always remember that there are families at home for many/most of these people. You can't compare a job where you go home at the end of each shift to one where you might spend several days a week away from home living in hotels. It's tiring and emotionally draining after a while. I really think some people believe all of the hype about glamour and high salaries and forget the realities of living out of a suitcase for most of the year.
Last edited by Just_a_fan on 18 Oct 2021, 17:59, edited 2 times in total.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
