Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes MP4-24

[siskue2005]

if the diffusers are classed as illegal,hamilton will get ten points for aussie race.

FIA wont remove the Brawn GP victory! keep dreaming
if the diffusor is illegal, it will be from the Shangai race. and no one is going to change the results from first 2 race!
its the same as MDamper!

Renault removed their mass damper BEFORE it was banned to avoid losing any points retrospectively.

At German GP 2006 ,the FIA stewards declared it leagal.....just like the Diffuser now...... they raced with that under an appeal...just like 2009 Diffuser
They all used it until the FIA solve that matter.....which they banned afterwards.....and everyone removed that device!
And Renault didnot loose their 3rd position from German GP!

[Shaddock]

Renault removed their mass damper BEFORE it was banned to avoid losing any points retrospectively.

At German GP 2006 ,the FIA stewards declared it leagal.....just like the Diffuser now...... they raced with that under an appeal...just like 2009 Diffuser
They all used it until the FIA solve that matter.....which they banned afterwards.....and everyone removed that device!
And Renault didnot loose their 3rd position from German GP![/quote]


My understanding was that the race stewards gave it the all clear in Germany, but the FIA appealed this decision. Renault removed the device and did not run it in Germany, and had a poor race, but kept the points when the FIA banned it in August at the appeal hearing.

[siskue2005]

My understanding was that the race stewards gave it the all clear in Germany, but the FIA appealed this decision. Renault removed the device and did not run it in Germany, and had a poor race, but kept the points when the FIA banned it in August at the appeal hearing.

actually Charlie whiting and stewards allowed them to race with it that weekend!
he personally told every team who have it can use it that weekend.

[Shaddock]

My understanding was that the race stewards gave it the all clear in Germany, but the FIA appealed this decision. Renault removed the device and did not run it in Germany, and had a poor race, but kept the points when the FIA banned it in August at the appeal hearing.

actually Charlie whiting and stewards allowed them to race with it that weekend!
he personally told every team who have it can use it that weekend.

NO team raced with a mass damper in Germany because they feared they would loose any points if it were banned at the appeal hearing.

[siskue2005]

My understanding was that the race stewards gave it the all clear in Germany, but the FIA appealed this decision. Renault removed the device and did not run it in Germany, and had a poor race, but kept the points when the FIA banned it in August at the appeal hearing.

actually Charlie whiting and stewards allowed them to race with it that weekend!
he personally told every team who have it can use it that weekend.

NO team raced with a mass damper in Germany because they feared they would loose any points if it were banned at the appeal hearing.

now i am confused!
But i am 100% sure that Charlie whiting told them to use it at German GP
coz i had fight on another forum on that day about that matter

But now i am confused if they used it or not

[Shaddock]

NO team raced with a mass damper in Germany because they feared they would loose any points if it were banned at the appeal hearing.

now i am confused!
But i am 100% sure that Charlie whiting told them to use it at German GP
coz i had fight on another forum on that day about that matter

But now i am confused if they used it or not

They didn't look here:-

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2006/8/4830.html

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2006/8/4752.html

[vasia]

Sorry to point out the obvious to all the people saying McLaren have got the wrong wheelbase - it's almost identical to the Ferrari and Brawn. So if McLaren have it wrong, so do those cars. Their problem isn't wheelbase it's an overall lack of downforce due to insufficient air flowing under the car. If/When they can fix this and they can open out their twin deck diffuser you can expect them to be right at the sharp end.

The Ferrari is different as the nose particularly and rear wing extend out far beyond the front and rear axles. The F60 in essence mimics a longer wheelbase. The Brawn has a ton of downforce and they are not running KERS. The Brawn has proven to have strong downforce and very good balance.

To clarify, I think McLaren got it wrong due to a number of reasons that relate to their short-wheelbase. Firstly, they are running KERS which throws off their weight distribution. Secondly, the nose and rear wing do not extend out that far beyond the wheel axles. This means less body surface area to control flow. Also the driver in the MP4-24 sits very close to the car's center line. On the Brawn and Ferrari, the drivers sit a bit further forward of the car's center line.

I'm not so sure Mclaren's problems are entirely aero-related. I think their problems also are also related to weight distribution and balance.

[De Jokke]

I personally have the feeling that mclaren's race pace isn't that bad contrary to the quali pace. The last jerez test with kovy really improved the race pace I think. We're not that far from ferrari and toyota as I thought we would be. I hope the updates will improve more than mcl expect them to do in malaysia but I really doubt it. If it rains, it will break or make lewis race, dependent from how much the car improved the last test with kovy, but now in rainy conditions which we haven't seen yet. It's gonna be a 50/50 chance but nonetheless rain will make a stunner of a gp I think with al the cars running on slicks (if the race starts dry) and then have to come in to change tyres. A lot of car control loss will happen, I think . + we'll maybe see them use the front wing flaps

[nudger]

Also the driver in the MP4-24 sits very close to the car's center line. On the Brawn and Ferrari, the drivers sit a bit further forward of the car's center line.

I'm not so sure Mclaren's problems are entirely aero-related. I think their problems also are also related to weight distribution and balance.

and have you noticed how much higher the driver appears to sit in the mclaren?

[lkocev]

I was very pleased to see that the MP4-24 actually seemed faster than I was expecting, particularly in race pace. It seems like there further off the pace in qualifying than in race trim, but Hamilton seemed to have OK pace for most of the day. I'm pretty certain McLaren can bounce back in a few Grands Prix, I think we'll see some more points finishes from them in the comming races. Hopefully Kovalainen can get a handfull of points too, he seems quite good in the new car...

[PlatinumZealot]

people talking about long and short wheel base.. what order of difference are you talking about.. millimeters or centimeters?

[siskue2005]

NO team raced with a mass damper in Germany because they feared they would loose any points if it were banned at the appeal hearing.

now i am confused!
But i am 100% sure that Charlie whiting told them to use it at German GP
coz i had fight on another forum on that day about that matter

But now i am confused if they used it or not

They didn't look here:-

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2006/8/4830.html

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2006/8/4752.html

ok thats good, i stand corrected

[Rob W]

actually Charlie whiting and stewards allowed them to race with it that weekend! he personally told every team who have it can use it that weekend.

This wouldn't be the same Charlie Whiting who notified the teams and drivers that cars coming out of the pits to the first corner had the right of way almost immediately after which we saw a penalty given which ruled the complete opposite of this when Massa (on-track) drove into Bourdais (coming out of the Pits) at the Japanese Grand Prix last year?

[myurr]

people talking about long and short wheel base.. what order of difference are you talking about.. millimeters or centimeters?

A few centimeters. The cars are pretty much divided into two camps, the short wheelbase cars (Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Brawn and I think Renault) who are all within about 1cm of each other, with the long wheelbase cars also all being within 1cm or so.

I would guess that the difference between the two groups is in the order of 5 - 10 centimeters, but that is only a visual guess.

Edit: Force India are short wheelbase as well, with almost identical dimensions to McLaren.

[imightbewrong]

Very interesting pictures:


From here: http://forums.autosport.com/showthread. ... ost3552646