2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[AeroDynamic]

Seems like my reply didnt post, so sgain.

As an Austrian, I like hesring our anthem, thus I am a bit biased, I like Red Bull.

But to be honest, if any other driver did, what Max did (going wide, forcing another driving off the track. not leaving a car width for an opponent, which is infront on the braking point. going „zick-zack“ down a straight to defent), it would be a penalty. +5s st least.

That is one of the main problems this season. the stewards decisions are not consistent

What bothers me, is Max didn't make the turn himself, and didn't show any signs of a lock-up, or of understeer!

It was identical driving to Silverstone, as it happened in Brooklands. Lewis did the same in response at copse, the only difference between max and Lewis, is Lewis leaves space when he’s outside, and max closes in on the driver: he did exactly the same to sainz yesterday in the sprint and they made light contact. Max is the common denominator with these sorts of contacts.

I believe this is why he was booed by a neutral crowd.

[jknights]

We need to accept that both Verstappen and Hamilton are great drivers. We are at the crossover between two great drivers. I would prefer to see a red car at the front and LeClerc and Sainz are very good drivers but not quite as great as the pair at the top of the WDC.

[politburo]

Michael Massi is a pathetic RB roll over dog.
My dog and bitch are both neutered but they have more cajones than Massi!
We need to have professional stewards and a decent race director.
Vote of No Confidence.

You are embarrassing yourself, Masi does not decide on penalties its the stewards who do that.

No Massi manages the stewards but is not meant to influence the stewards but he is not even 1/10 as good and fair as the late Charlie Whiting.

No dude, just, no. Masi simply elevates incidents to the stewards that they haven''t noted themselves. His job is to direct the race, i.e. make sure barriers are all okay on track, ensure there are no on-track hazards such as debris etc. It is why teams can talk to him but not the stewards during the race, because the stewards are the ones making decisions on racing incidents, crashes, penalties, etc.

You are here just complaining about absolutely nothing. Why penalize a driver in that situation?. Should Sainz have been penalized for doing the same to Verstappen yesterday, pushing him off and gaining the place?. Gasly on Alonso today?. That is a bang-on racing incident sadly, they both went off. You are just complaining because Hamilton gets a penalty for a technical infringement and want to see others punished, a penalty which was the team's responsibility not Hamiltons, or Verstappen's or the stewards or Masi's. It's not hard to not be so spiteful all the time.

[tpe]

What a...drive? Or What a spaceship?
I would say both. OH drove one of his best races, ever.
Clearly the best race of the season, so far.

MV is such a sour loser, I am saying this for his tactics. Not necessarily the missed corner, it could easily be because he was late on the brakes, but because his zick-zack thing.
I remember back in the day when KR complaint about it, everyone was saying "let them race"...

Anyway. The other thing that still puzzles me, is how on earth a team that was clearly slower than RB before the summer break become the fastest by a huge margin after the break. With the factories closed.

[ringo]

The mercedes was not that much faster this weekend. We could see that with Hamilton vs Perez and Hamilton vs Max.
I think the car was faster where it mattered and that's the uphill and the straight. It was the faster car this weekend but it was not like Max in Mexico in terms of utter dominance.
What did not help Max was his inexperience at driving this track. I could see it from his lines. For some reason he didn't seem to be in a good groove at all.
The early pitstop did not help him either. Hamilton use the fresher tyre advantage and made the most of it, but he was not light years ahead of Max. If we put Perez vs Hamilton in that last stint, I Perez could have done a better job of defending. Perez has the superior race craft to his teammate. He just does not have the pace of Max.
Hamilton setup his overtake from turn 1 and Max fell for it.
People do not realize the level of strategy and craft that Hamilton operates on. The overtake on Max was not solely down to pace. It took a lot of ingenuity and taking advantage of Max's own petulance to put him out of position into turn 1.
But this race was a good one. For ferrari, Merce and even Torro Rosso and Alpine.
Again we see why Hamilton is the GOAT. We do not see these kinds of drives often, and when they do happen they're coming from LH.

I hope Mercedes appeals the decision and provides new data to the FIA

[Shrieker]

That was a slam dunk give position back, or receive 5 seconds penalty. Why they've looked after MV there is unfathomable.

What are they going to do now ? That sends a message to the others that it's fair game, when it's absolutely not. And they are of course gonna penalize when this happens again, regardless of the drivers involved.

And that's exactly what a double standard is.

[Scorpaguy]

So with a 20 KPH straight-line speed disadvantage...does Max try and take an engine for the next race. Yes, very determined drive by Ham (he has all of those records for a reason)...but 20 KPH made this inevitable. Honda has to start feeling a bit embarrassed again...Toto must really hate the "rising sun".

[politburo]

https://twitter.com/HillF1/status/14599 ... 36576?s=20

Hamilton did it back-to-back-to-back days this weekend.

Lemme just preempt the people who will try to say this is meaningless because “he’s British.”

You were right yesterday when you said that he could still win. Great call mate!

That was a amazing performance from Lewis this weekend, he never gives up.

Very kind of you to say. I just had one of those feelings. Once you put Lewis in a corner, he usually takes his game to another level, for the very reason you pointed out above!

I’m just glad the championship wasn’t decided in the stewards’ room this weekend. Absolutely love Interlagos.

He's in a state of mind where it's the greatness now oozing out. That and ofcourse help from the superior machinery of the W12 and a fresh ICE, there is no way greatness gives you 5 tenths not only on your rival but also on your own teammate who is also quite quick.Maybe 1 or 2 tengths greatness and the rest the machinery. Still a great performance despite that.

[djones]

So with a 20 KPH straight-line speed disadvantage...does Max try and take an engine for the next race. Yes, very determined drive by Ham (he has all of those records for a reason)...but 20 KPH made this inevitable. Honda has to start feeling a bit embarrassed again...Toto must really hate the "rising sun".

I’m pretty sure when both were in clean air it was not a 20 kph difference.

That aside, redbull were running more downforce as they were faster in the high speed corners. They could have chose to run lower downforce, just as they could have started with new engines to match their competitor.

People also have short memories and forget this season Mercedes had their aero concept ripped apart with the new regs. This meant they were having to run draggy downforce and it masked that they have a much better engine than Honda. As the season has gone on they have gained back ‘clean’ downforce so it looks like the engine is getting more powerful.

This weekend the new engine helped as it was fresh, but it was compounded as it also only has to do 4 races so could run higher output modes.

[Sieper]

Great race by Lewis, congrats. Race itself was good as well imho. Onwards to the next!

[ringo]

We need to remember that the other engines are not standing still, they are loosing performance too, even the honda.
How long has Max had his newest engine? From Russia?
That was many races ago and that engine has been through a lot. If brand new honda has 980 hp and a brand new Benz has 1000hp. Max is probably at 950 hp now with his engine vs Hamilton's 1000hp. That's a 50hp difference down to just wear.
That Benz engine is not better than the previous specification its just relative performance. Also...Because it has less races to cover mercedes can also spice it up and add a little bit more boost to bring it to 1060hp, like it used to do when all teams were allowed to have qualifying modes.
So they are able to have a 110 horsepower advantage just by basic engine mode and the fact the honda has worn down.

Will Max take an engine penalty in the next race?

[politburo]

So with a 20 KPH straight-line speed disadvantage...does Max try and take an engine for the next race. Yes, very determined drive by Ham (he has all of those records for a reason)...but 20 KPH made this inevitable. Honda has to start feeling a bit embarrassed again...Toto must really hate the "rising sun".

I’m pretty sure when both were in clean air it was not a 20 kph difference.

That aside, redbull were running more downforce as they were faster in the high speed corners. They could have chose to run lower downforce, just as they could have started with new engines to match their competitor.

People also have short memories and forget this season Mercedes had their aero concept ripped apart with the new regs. This meant they were having to run draggy downforce and it masked that they have a much better engine than Honda. As the season has gone on they have gained back ‘clean’ downforce so it looks like the engine is getting more powerful.

This weekend the new engine helped as it was fresh, but it was compounded as it also only has to do 4 races so could run higher output modes.

It was more like 7-10 km/hr without DRS. Max was maxing out at around 304 km/hr whilst Lewis would get up to 310-313 km/hr range, he'd gain like 2 tenths from the Junction to the finish line.

[straightline]

Seems like my reply didnt post, so sgain.

As an Austrian, I like hesring our anthem, thus I am a bit biased, I like Red Bull.

But to be honest, if any other driver did, what Max did (going wide, forcing another driving off the track. not leaving a car width for an opponent, which is infront on the braking point. going „zick-zack“ down a straight to defent), it would be a penalty. +5s st least.

That is one of the main problems this season. the stewards decisions are not consistent

What bothers me, is Max didn't make the turn himself, and didn't show any signs of a lock-up, or of understeer!

It was identical driving to Silverstone, as it happened in Brooklands. Lewis did the same in response at copse, the only difference between max and Lewis, is Lewis leaves space when he’s outside, and max closes in on the driver: he did exactly the same to sainz yesterday in the sprint and they made light contact. Max is the common denominator with these sorts of contacts.

I believe this is why he was booed by a neutral crowd.

as much as it hurts me to say it, but i agree with every word

[AeroDynamic]

So with a 20 KPH straight-line speed disadvantage...does Max try and take an engine for the next race. Yes, very determined drive by Ham (he has all of those records for a reason)...but 20 KPH made this inevitable. Honda has to start feeling a bit embarrassed again...Toto must really hate the "rising sun".

I’m pretty sure when both were in clean air it was not a 20 kph difference.

That aside, redbull were running more downforce as they were faster in the high speed corners. They could have chose to run lower downforce, just as they could have started with new engines to match their competitor.

People also have short memories and forget this season Mercedes had their aero concept ripped apart with the new regs. This meant they were having to run draggy downforce and it masked that they have a much better engine than Honda. As the season has gone on they have gained back ‘clean’ downforce so it looks like the engine is getting more powerful.

This weekend the new engine helped as it was fresh, but it was compounded as it also only has to do 4 races so could run higher output modes.

It seems like Mercedes have sort of equalised the regs somewhat by being able turn the low rake disadvantage under these regs, into a neutralising feature in straights, but only in circuits that reward it. I’m not sure what Mercedes have done with their engine but to push that car with all that downforce, it’s impressive. I think the cars are very close, maybe in ideal conditions each, the Mercedes is faster. But in my opinion the better car is the one that goes faster in a broader range of circuits and conditions.

[Hammerfist]

We need to remember that the other engines are not standing still, they are loosing performance too, even the honda.
How long has Max had his newest engine? From Russia?
That was many races ago and that engine has been through a lot. If brand new honda has 980 hp and a brand new Benz has 1000hp. Max is probably at 950 hp now with his engine vs Hamilton's 1000hp. That's a 50hp difference down to just wear.
That Benz engine is not better than the previous specification its just relative performance. Also...Because it has less races to cover mercedes can also spice it up and add a little bit more boost to bring it to 1060hp, like it used to do when all teams were allowed to have qualifying modes.
So they are able to have a 110 horsepower advantage just by basic engine mode and the fact the honda has worn down.

Will Max take an engine penalty in the next race?

It's been talked about that the Honda has superior power degradation than the Merc. Merc's achilles heel this season is that the engine loses too much power throughout its life cycle. Honda comparatively only loses 10 percent of power at the end of its life. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this but I remember reading this.
So imo we cannot predict if Merc's newfound advantage will last until Abu Dhabi.