2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[nimoraca]

Silverstone

Apparently you forgot a penalty was given out in Silverstone?

You are right about that.

IMO there is no big difference in Lewis mindset in silverstone, compared to max in brasil.
What happened in both cases IMO is not racing, and what happened in Brasil and Monza is consequence of Silverstone.

It's gloves off now

By that logic, its all consequences of Imola. However, this one was by far the clearest braking of the rules if there ever was one.

[bonjon1979]

The Fia have made a huge problem for themselves. Either they give a penalty retrospectively, or they can essentially never give a penalty for a non-contact crowding off the road situation again. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the next drivers briefing.

[Shrieker]

The Fia have made a huge problem for themselves. Either they give a penalty retrospectively, or they can essentially never give a penalty for a non-contact crowding off the road situation again. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the next drivers briefing.

Haha, spot on. And this is exactly why he should receive at the very least a symbolic penalty for this; e.g. a reprimand + penalty points.

[bonjon1979]

The Fia have made a huge problem for themselves. Either they give a penalty retrospectively, or they can essentially never give a penalty for a non-contact crowding off the road situation again. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the next drivers briefing.

Haha, spot on. And this is exactly why he should receive at the very least a symbolic penalty for this; e.g. a reprimand + penalty points.

Yeh, but doesn't that also create a problem. After clarifying that this is against the rules, Hamilton does exactly the same thing in the next race and gets a ten second penalty. It's a complete mess now and I just don't see a way out of it. I'd also like to see them come out and be properly questioned by the media about this, not just by paid lackeys like Coulthard who say let them race. Ultimately, the drivers aren't able to overtake if you are allowed to barge anyone who tries to come past you off the road. It actually ruins the sport, not aids it. I just think there are a lot of people, commercial stakeholders and commentators who can see that the future is Max once Hamilton is out of the sport and want to get on that bandwagon.

[bonjon1979]

I hadn't seen this from Masi before which is an incredible statement to make.

“They’re, give or take, about side-on-side,” Masi added.

We've seen the screenshot with versteppan clearly behind the rear wheel of Hamilton. It absolutely beggars belief that they didn't even both to investigate this incident. I'm sorry but one can't help question why they didn't want to look at it? It's like they've got their eyes closed and fingers in their ears when it comes to max. There wasn't much else going on at the time so they weren't overworked as can sometimes happen in more difficult races.

[Wil992]

Yeh, but doesn't that also create a problem. After clarifying that this is against the rules, Hamilton does exactly the same thing in the next race and gets a ten second penalty. It's a complete mess now and I just don't see a way out of it....

I agree with what you're saying, but isn't the answer a meaningful penalty applied now? eg significant grid drop, time penalty etc? A 30 second time penalty (the equivalent of a 10 second stop/go) would put him behind perez, which although completely improbable would be quite funny.

Trouble with all that is, as you alluded to, how the stewards could justify a harsh penalty now where 3 days ago it wasn't even worth looking at.

I have to say though, driving off the track aside, i am enjoying this year's championship more than i have for a few years, and a lot of that is down to max taking the fight to lewis.

[Bill]

all these merc fans who want Max to be penalise are being hypocrites lewis had a history running oponents offtrack and getting away with it eg Albon in Austria .they know in a far fight he lose against Max only grotesgue straight line speed and downright taking Max off racetrack like in silverstone will win him champ

[El Scorchio]

The Fia have made a huge problem for themselves. Either they give a penalty retrospectively, or they can essentially never give a penalty for a non-contact crowding off the road situation again. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the next drivers briefing.

Nah not really- they'll penalise something similar in the next race probably, as if that incident in Interlagos never happened! That's why they are so frustrating. The inconsistency of it all.

But I agree the drivers briefing could be very interesting and I'd imagine they have a lot of questions and confusion over what's allowable and what's not, and it's really unfair because the rules of engagement really keep shifting and what's deemed acceptable one week is not acceptable the next week.

[AeroDynamic]

all these merc fans who want Max to be penalise are being hypocrites lewis had a history running oponents offtrack and getting away with it eg Albon in Austria .they know in a far fight he lose against Max only grotesgue straight line speed and downright taking Max off racetrack like in silverstone will win him champ

Not really about fans, it’s about F1. If a driver goes off track by as many as 4 car widths, he lost control and unintentionally impeded the other racer, or, deliberately ran someone off the track to gain a lasting advantage. Both are crimes against the racing code and warrant the same action: give the placement back or 5 seconds.

I’m sure Lewis and many others have been aggressive that way but if they kept it on track and there was no gravel, then I think that’s alright.

[Bill]

i here what you saying but steward are there for reasons they deliberated on matter and said it was okay its time to move on

[Phil]

I think some of you guys are putting too much faith in the governing body and stewarding of F1. Each race is its own unique event. What was decided in one race doesnt necessarily cary over to the next. It’s just what it is. Wanting consistency isnt wrong, but i dont believe it is something that is achievable or doable.

It also strikingly obvious that not only does intent matter, they also look at consequence. In Silverstone, the consequence was that one driver was out, the other wasnt. At brazil, there was little consequence: both left the track (even though one was forced off) but both also continued to race with little to no damage. Like it or not, it’s the way it is and how most of these incidents are judged.

[Poleman]

i here what you saying but steward are there for reasons they deliberated on matter and said it was okay its time to move on

You are absolutely correct,the stewards are there for a reason and that is to do their job,which surprise surprise,they didn't!

all these merc fans who want Max to be penalise are being hypocrites lewis had a history running oponents offtrack and getting away with it eg Albon in Austria .they know in a far fight he lose against Max only grotesgue straight line speed and downright taking Max off racetrack like in silverstone will win him champ

Also about Mercedes/Hamilton fans, Lewis got already the best he could get given the circumstances.Could he get more benefit with a penalty handed to Verstappen? Absolutely! The point of this whole discussion isn't about Hamilton benefitting from penalizing Max but what comes after that clown fiesta of Interlagos.

[GrizzleBoy]

i here what you saying but steward are there for reasons they deliberated on matter and said it was okay its time to move on

Yes they did, but without looking at the relevant telemetry data or camera angles.

Also, how do you feel about every single overtaking attempt in every single race going forward now being defended by pushing the attacking car upto ten car widths away from the apex of the corner in order to keep track position?

The stewards said its okay, so clearly this is just how we race now?

If keeping a car behind can be the difference between millions in constructors championship payouts or drivers championship positions, then every driver should be doing this, every single race, to benefit themselves and their teams.

It's their job to do this now. It's obviously within the rules and the racing code and there's no problem with doing it, so why not?

Infact, redbull should just set their car up for quali to get pole, then instruct Max to drive Lewis into the wall/dirt/gravel/runoff at every single attempt, because there's nothig wrong with that.

Answer:
Because EVERYONE (most frustratingly including every single steward in that room on sunday) knows it is wrong, which is why nobody on the grid has performed such poor defending etiquette expecting to get away with it, unless they are Verstappen.

[GrizzleBoy]

i here what you saying but steward are there for reasons they deliberated on matter and said it was okay its time to move on

Yes they did, but without looking at the relevant telemetry data or camera angles.

Also, how do you feel about every single overtaking attempt in every single race going forward now being defended by pushing the attacking car upto ten car widths away from the apex of the corner in order to keep track position?

The stewards said its okay, so clearly this is just how we race now?

If keeping a car behind can be the difference between millions in constructors championship payouts or drivers championship positions, then every driver should be doing this, every single race, to benefit themselves and their teams.

It's their job to do this now. It's obviously within the rules and the racing code and there's no problem with doing it, so why not?

As Alonso pointed out in Russia, why be a sitting duck trying to conform to the gentleman's agreement between drivers when you're being presented with loopholes that aren't punished and others are taking advantage?

Infact, redbull should just set their car up for quali to get pole, then instruct Max to drive Lewis into the wall/dirt/gravel/runoff at every single attempt, because there's nothig wrong with that.

Answer:
Because EVERYONE (most frustratingly including every single steward in that room on sunday) knows it is wrong, which is why nobody on the grid has performed such poor defending etiquette expecting to get away with it, unless they are Verstappen.

[Wil992]

all these merc fans who want Max to be penalise are being hypocrites lewis had a history running oponents offtrack and getting away with it eg Albon in Austria .they know in a far fight he lose against Max only grotesgue straight line speed and downright taking Max off racetrack like in silverstone will win him champ

hamilton was penalised for the collision with albon in austria, and apologised after the race.
Not really sure how that's "getting away with it".