2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

[KeiKo403]

I’m sure we’ve seen drivers lose places in the race before when they’ve overtaken someone on the last lap of the race but the chequered flag was waived one lap early. Flags are flags.

[politburo]

But then if FIA are saying sorry it was a mistake, then drivers have being penalised, eg: Vettel and Alonso who did slow down and also Bottas set a slower lap.

hmmm, dodgy.

It's not about setting a faster lap but about slowing down, either lifting or braking and lowering you speed at the scene of the incident. It's there in the event notes.

[nokivasara]

Another race, another stewarding cirkus. And it's only saturday

[politburo]

This is going to be another overnight decision making

Thankfully it's for tomorrow 13:00 local
My guess is +3 places

The precedent is +5 places and 3 penalty points.

[El Scorchio]

It depends on whether this week, unlike last, they are prepared to actually make a big call which could have title ramifications rather than bottling it and hoping for the best.

The decision making just needs to be consistent with previous similar situations, regardless of which drivers are involved.

[NathanOlder]

Yoyoing around

Hope this is correct. Even if the flags were out by mistake, the drivers still ignored them and kept it flat out. On a straight you have to lift, its easier to get away with it in a corner. On a straight, its a slam dunk. Then again, so was last weeks lap 48 incident.

Connelly is an interesting element in this as a steward, but a reprimand is my guess.

More than likely, yet Mercedes got a 3 place penalty for a single waved yellow infringement last season.

[politburo]

Yoyoing around

Hope this is correct. Even if the flags were out by mistake, the drivers still ignored them and kept it flat out. On a straight you have to lift, its easier to get away with it in a corner. On a straight, its a slam dunk. Then again, so was last weeks lap 48 incident.

You'll keep talking about lap 48 til' all your hair is completely grey. Too much conversation about racing incidents from other races instead of the race tomorrow.

[Jolle]

GAS P2, ALO P3?

[RZS10]

Is it a discretionary penalty? Or is it black and white “ignore double/single yellow during quali and receive x place grid drop”?

Also, which one takes precedent if the official yellow is lifted, but the marshal hasn’t gotten the notice and is still waving the flag? It appears that both Bot and Ver both passed the post after the yellow was lifted, even though the flags were still out/waving.

Btw, I’m not arguing in favor of one or the other, just trying to understand the rule.

It's Appendix H (link) Art. 2.5.5 b) that concerns yellow flags:

This is a signal of danger and should be shown to drivers in two ways with the following meanings:
- Single waved: Reduce your speed, do not overtake, and be prepared to change direction. There is a hazard beside or partly on the track. It must be evident that a driver has reduced speed; this means a driver is expected to have braked earlier and/or noticeably reduced speed in that sector.
- Double waved: Reduce your speed significantly, do not overtake, and be prepared to change direction or stop. There is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track and/or marshals working on or beside the track. During free practice and qualifying, it must be evident that a driver has not attempted to set a meaningful lap time; this means the driver should abandon the lap (this does not mean he has to pit as the track could well be clear the following lap).

Yellow flags should normally be shown only at the marshal post immediately preceding the hazard.
In some cases, however, the Clerk of the Course may order them to be shown at more than one marshal post preceding an incident.
[...]

2.5.5.2 says the following:

The above-mentioned signals may be effected using lights or light panels as described in Article 2.4.3.

2.4.3:

Each post should be provided with:
a) a reliable two-way communications system with race control and an independent back-up system.
b) a set of signalling flags comprising:
(list of flags)
Any supplementary or relay posts must also be equipped with a similar set of flags.
[...]

Depending on how you'd read it the marshals appear to have the right to wave flags at their discretion and the race direction (is that the clerk of the course?) can tell them to wave more than those?

2.5.5.2 says 'effected' which per definition means "to achieve something and cause it to happen"

The light signals are described as supplementary which would give the actual flags preference.

Also in 2.5.3:

Lights may be used to supplement waved red, yellow, green, blue and white flags. When lights are to be used at a competition they should be described in the Suppplementary Regulations and the following requirements should be respected [...]

The penalties have pretty much always been +5 grid drop. (Norris, Russell in Turkey for example)

edits were for typos, formatting and adding the link

[politburo]

Hope this is correct. Even if the flags were out by mistake, the drivers still ignored them and kept it flat out. On a straight you have to lift, its easier to get away with it in a corner. On a straight, its a slam dunk. Then again, so was last weeks lap 48 incident.

Connelly is an interesting element in this as a steward, but a reprimand is my guess.

More than likely, yet Mercedes got a 3 place penalty for a single waved yellow infringement last season.

Vettel got 5 places and 3 penalty points for single waved yellows in Bahrain as well. Mazepin and Latifi were given a 10 seconds stop-go, applied after the race as 30 seconds and 3 penalty points in Austria as well for Raikonnen and Vettel crash. It's not Mercedes vs FIA for as much as you like to think and insinuate that it is mate.

[nokivasara]

It depends on whether this week, unlike last, they are prepared to actually make a big call which could have title ramifications rather than bottling it and hoping for the best.

The decision making just needs to be consistent with previous similar situations, regardless of which drivers are involved.

Exactly and they have already made one decision and then changed their minds and are now looking at it again. The pinnacle of motorsport is not met by the same level of stewarding.

[AeroDynamic]

This is going to be another overnight decision making

Thankfully it's for tomorrow 13:00 local
My guess is +3 places

The precedent is +5 places and 3 penalty points.

What?? You was going at people in this thread for ‘calling for penalties’ and preaching that everyone you assert to be my ‘companions’ don’t know what we are talking about, throwing the FIA rule book at us, and straight lawyering hard for Massi. Why are you saying this now??

he set his fastest 3rd sector, and showed no signs of lifting off when he passed through the double waved yellows.

That's 2 no nos.

Well if he broke the rules, rules are rules. They should do something. But they were looking the other way cause it’s MV, poster boy for the new generation of fans

Nope. The rules are that your time gets deleted, at most they give your a reprimand especially if you ahven't done this regularly before. Do you not read any of the event documents and just make assumptions?. It's there in the event notes

https://i.imgur.com/KBp1rSQ.png

Unacceptable to talk as if you are the steward and everyone is idiots.

Most drivers feel unclear about the rules how is that Masi's job to tell them?. They have team briefings, driver's briefings where they talk about that. And for the fans who have absolutely no idea of the rules that is their fault, all the resources are there on the FIA website, yet the fans choose to do guesswork and construct their own realities regardless like "FIA is against Hamilton, FIA wants Verstappen to win" pure insanity.

I don’t know what you’re on about. But sounds like an attorney for FIA and RB up on here

I'm interested in not muddying the truth with narratives but to be honest I'd rather be on that side than yours. Look at the many ridiculous things you and your companions are posting, none of who include opinions based on any fact rather just conjecture. Call for penalties for everything because your favorite driver actually had some competition for the first time in 3 years.

This didn’t age well

[214270]

Hope this is correct. Even if the flags were out by mistake, the drivers still ignored them and kept it flat out. On a straight you have to lift, its easier to get away with it in a corner. On a straight, its a slam dunk. Then again, so was last weeks lap 48 incident.

Connelly is an interesting element in this as a steward, but a reprimand is my guess.

More than likely, yet Mercedes got a 3 place penalty for a single waved yellow infringement last season.

Absolutely, but something is defo in the air re: stewarding . Precedent is out the window and rules are being made as we go, so who knows.

[search]

Yoyoing around

Motorsport-Total/Formel1.de is not exactly a credible source. So the first information (about no upcoming investigation) doesn't necessarily need to be true. They'd blow out a "there's no investigation [currently]" quote into a sensational, click baiting story every time they have the chance to.

[kenshi_blind]

Yoyoing around

Motorsport-Total/Formel1.de is not exactly a credible source. So the first information (about no upcoming investigation) doesn't necessarily need to be true. They'd blow out a "there's no investigation [currently]" quote into a sensational, click baiting story every time they have the chance to.

Skysports says he is under investigation , for what's worth