2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

[RZS10]

Good points regarding the application of any penalties. Presumably, from memory which is always a bit rough, the penalties are applied in the order they're given, and the grid is 'opened up to apply penalty to first driver, closed back up, grid is formed again, and is then reopened to apply the penalty to the 2nd driver who has a grid penalty, so on and so forth' - rather than opening the grid up, and applying all penalties at once and then closing up again once done. Not sure if that's still the process these days? And of course that's if anything comes of tomorrows meetings, which it should, but who knows these days.

I did move the driver out, moved three/five drivers up, moved the driver into the free slot, then the next etc so what you described.

They can still hand out the penalties in the order in which the incidents occured despite having the summons in a different order - that would be the only fair thing to do, otherwise it would look like they'd be trying to move Max up the grid by one place, although i guess he might even prefer 7th to 6th.

[Big Tea]

Behind Norris and Alonso is probably much worse than being behind Bottas.

[politburo]

Good points regarding the application of any penalties. Presumably, from memory which is always a bit rough, the penalties are applied in the order they're given, and the grid is 'opened up to apply penalty to first driver, closed back up, grid is formed again, and is then reopened to apply the penalty to the 2nd driver who has a grid penalty, so on and so forth' - rather than opening the grid up, and applying all penalties at once and then closing up again once done. Not sure if that's still the process these days? And of course that's if anything comes of tomorrows meetings, which it should, but who knows these days.

I would expect it to be in order of infringement. Order of summons is open to manipulation (or at least the perception of it).

It might be possible that a 3-place would be good for Verstappen. The dirty side is probably really dirty. There's been at least one GP in recent memory where the cars on the dirty side of the grid barely moved relative to the clean side. Only hindsight will know for sure though.

The precedent is 5 place grid drop for double yellow, would not be surprised if it's 10 places. Double yellow is serious. 3 places for Bottas and Sainz more likely.

I just pray it shuts up all those FIA-RedBull conspiracy theories. Would be truly nice to not see posters flood the race threads with that trash.

[Incognito]

Although, iirc, in Russia they issued penalties based on qualifying order, front to back?

So Verstappen would get his penalty first, then Bottas, then Sainz.

[AeroDynamic]

Behind Norris and Alonso is probably much worse than being behind Bottas.

Norris yeah, but not Alonso. That’s one of his unofficial team mates. I will eat my hat if he races him hard after a penalty tomorrow.

[Big Tea]

Behind Norris and Alonso is probably much worse than being behind Bottas.

Norris yeah, but not Alonso. That’s one of his unofficial team mates. I will eat my hat if he races him hard after a penalty tomorrow.

I don't think it is in Alonso's DNA to allow the safety car by without a fight

[RZS10]

Although, iirc, in Russia they issued penalties based on qualifying order, front to back?

So Verstappen would get his penalty first, then Bottas, then Sainz.

That was for engine penalties, it's written in the rules that way.

[Incognito]

Behind Norris and Alonso is probably much worse than being behind Bottas.

Norris yeah, but not Alonso. That’s one of his unofficial team mates. I will eat my hat if he races him hard after a penalty tomorrow.

I don't think that's fair. Wasn't it Russia(?) that Alonso actually made Verstappen work pretty hard for the pass?

Alonso is old enough to realise that he might as well troll people in press conferences. I wouldn't take his comments to the media too seriously.

[foxmulder_ms]

Behind Norris and Alonso is probably much worse than being behind Bottas.

Norris yeah, but not Alonso. That’s one of his unofficial team mates. I will eat my hat if he races him hard after a penalty tomorrow.

I don't think it is in Alonso's DNA to allow the safety car by without a fight

He 100% will let go. He will not fight like he did to HAM. 100%. If rules are applied for yellow flag. They most probably will *not* since this is a redbull.

[Incognito]

Although, iirc, in Russia they issued penalties based on qualifying order, front to back?

So Verstappen would get his penalty first, then Bottas, then Sainz.

That was for engine penalties, it's written in the rules that way.

Does that include Gio's gearbox penalty (i.e. penalties for part replacement are different to driver infringements)?

[foxmulder_ms]

No need to overcomplicate it. Flags on the left, stopped car on the right. Every driver would've seen Gasly and most likely then immediately looked to the Marshall post to see if flags were out (or vice versa). Everyone who passed by and didn't slow down should be penalized, full stop.

They will not, though no penalty whatsoever maybe a reprimand.

[Noble29]

Good points regarding the application of any penalties. Presumably, from memory which is always a bit rough, the penalties are applied in the order they're given, and the grid is 'opened up to apply penalty to first driver, closed back up, grid is formed again, and is then reopened to apply the penalty to the 2nd driver who has a grid penalty, so on and so forth' - rather than opening the grid up, and applying all penalties at once and then closing up again once done. Not sure if that's still the process these days? And of course that's if anything comes of tomorrows meetings, which it should, but who knows these days.

I did move the driver out, moved three/five drivers up, moved the driver into the free slot, then the next etc so what you described.

They can still hand out the penalties in the order in which the incidents occured despite having the summons in a different order - that would be the only fair thing to do, otherwise it would look like they'd be trying to move Max up the grid by one place, although i guess he might even prefer 7th to 6th.

Sorry, I did mean to quote you before as it was your post as well as Keiko who replied to you that made me think about it more.

I think you're right, handing them out based on when they occurred, rather than summoning order, makes the most sense and is the fairest option I would've thought. But yes, surely the clean side has got to be worth at least 1 grid slot advantage off the line.

[Big Tea]

Norris yeah, but not Alonso. That’s one of his unofficial team mates. I will eat my hat if he races him hard after a penalty tomorrow.

I don't think it is in Alonso's DNA to allow the safety car by without a fight

He 100% will let go. He will not fight like he did to HAM. 100%. If rules are applied for yellow flag. They most probably will *not* since this is a redbull.

He is the consummate professional, that's why he is paid so much. He knows he is not only representing his team but also his sponsors. Every extra few seconds of Air time he gets them the happier they will be and the more bonuses he can ask for next time. It is unlikely the will be much coverage of his car cruising along at the head of the field, so this is where he earns his money. Alonso is there for Alonso, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way I mean it does not matter who is in the other car.

[nimoraca]

Vettel “It’s a bit of a shame because I had the yellow flag in the last sector and then the yellow flag cleared, I guess, because Max was coming.”
https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/20/vet ... as-coming/


Is it this obvious now amongst everyone racing ?

LOL

[politburo]

That is a refreshing change and a good article actually providing reasoned explanation for relative performance, backed up by evidence rather than wacky conspiracy theory. This season has evolved in superb back and forth fashion so far.

Yeah it was fun while it lasted. Just waiting for Hamilton to take the lead in the championship at this point, one can predict with a reasonable amount of precision what each weekend is going to be like at the front.

The real fights left are in the midfield, it is truly a big battle there. With unexpected results in both Quali and the Races.