Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Judging by that radio conversation it sounds like one great big bloody mix up.

Altho we have still yet to see any proof from the FIA that they were lying. As yet all we've got is "They lied to us". Well thats all well and good but for all I know the FIA could be lying saying that they were lying!

I know thats doubtful, and I'm not at all trying to say that Mclaren are innocent. I'd just like to see something conclusive from the FIA, because, as a fan, I can't help but feel there's something we're not seeing, and when that happens its usually because somebody has something to hide.

It just make me feel like the FIA are incompetent.

[vall]

Judging by that radio conversation it sounds like one great big bloody mix up.

Altho we have still yet to see any proof from the FIA that they were lying. As yet all we've got is "They lied to us". Well thats all well and good but for all I know the FIA could be lying saying that they were lying!

I know thats doubtful, and I'm not at all trying to say that Mclaren are innocent. I'd just like to see something conclusive from the FIA, because, as a fan, I can't help but feel there's something we're not seeing, and when that happens its usually because somebody has something to hide.

It just make me feel like the FIA are incompetent.

I am not sure if FIA makes footage when the stewards question drivers? They said, we ask the team "did you ask LH let Truli?", they asked LH "did you let Truli pass you"? The both answered "no", but as we now know, this is not true. So, we should ask FIA to release that footage, if they have one

[Shaddock]

Lets get this in perspective.

Toyota gets caught cheating with their bendy wings and get sent to the back of the queue. (also got caught stealing Ferrari documents a few years ago, it’s not McLaren, so the FIA leave it to the Italian authorities to sort out quietly)

Back to Sunday:

Trulli makes a mistake whilst running 3rd and runs off the track.

Lewis makes a legal pass for 3rd, as Trulli is off the track.

Trulli makes another mistake by passing Lewis and retaking 3rd position.

Lewis then legally holds position and doesn’t accept the offer to overtake, (Trulli could have done the same) and doesn’t retake 3rd position off Trulli.

McLaren and Lewis get disqualified, Trulli is deemed to have had a GREAT race!

And this has nothing at all to do with Max suspecting that he was setup by ‘people’ from the Middle East, with connections to the McLaren team when he got caught indulging in his BDSM fantasises.

Dream on.

[jddh1]

Vall, what are you talking about? They don't have cameras in the FIA trailer. So there is no footage to be released from the conversation between the stewards and Macca reps (including Lewis).
However, they do have people that type the conversations, just like they do in a courtroom, mainly because the stewarts' trailer is practically a courtroom on wheels. I think those transcripts are official so I doubt anyone would be messing with those. You go to jail for changing those types of transcripts.

[jddh1]

Lets get this in perspective.

Toyota gets caught cheating with their bendy wings and get sent to the back of the queue. (also got caught stealing Ferrari documents a few years ago, it’s not McLaren, so the FIA leave it to the Italian authorities to sort out quietly)

Back to Sunday:

Trulli makes a mistake whilst running 3rd and runs off the track.

Lewis makes a legal pass for 3rd, as Trulli is off the track.

Trulli makes another mistake by passing Lewis and retaking 3rd position.

Lewis then legally holds position and doesn’t accept the offer to overtake, (Trulli could have done the same) and doesn’t retake 3rd position off Trulli.

McLaren and Lewis get disqualified, Trulli is deemed to have had a GREAT race!

And this has nothing at all to do with Max suspecting that he was setup by ‘people’ from the Middle East, with connections to the McLaren team when he got caught indulging in his BDSM fantasises.

Dream on.

Wow, you are dreaming on.

Just read the transcripts, I say.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Just read the transcripts, I say.

Exactly, this is what I've been wittering on about, it's those transcripts that I'd love to see, clear conclusive proof. If it does show Mclaren lied, then fair play. If it doesn't, then I'd like to see the outcome for Max.

As yet these transcipts have neither been released or refered to, my question is, what (if anything) are they hiding?

[Shaddock]

Toyota gets caught cheating with their bendy wings and get sent to the back of the queue.

Trulli makes a mistake whilst running 3rd and runs off the track.

Lewis makes a legal pass for 3rd, as Trulli is off the track.

Trulli makes another mistake by passing Lewis and retaking 3rd position.

Lewis then legally holds position and doesn’t accept the offer to overtake.

Which but above did I get wrong?

[natef1]

Wow, you are dreaming on.

Just read the transcripts, I say.

Well I have..

LH: I let him past already.

Team: OK, Lewis. That's fine. That's fine. Hold position. Hold position.

LH: Tell Charlie I already overtook him. I just let him past.

Team: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G 5, yellow Golf 5.

LH: I don't have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake.

Team: Yes, we understand Lewis. Let's just do it by the book. We are asking Charlie now. You are in P4. If you hold this position. Just keep it together.

Team: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrot 2.

LH: Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not.

Team: Still waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.

Team: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.

Team: If we are able to use one KERS that would be good. If you deploy KERS please do so now.

Team: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in, you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli thing, but just hold position.

That sounds to me like he's behind Trulli, on the last lap. So either Hamilton took things into his own hands and disobeyed team orders or the entire situation is false.

Spencifer, there's some on Autosport and on the FIA website somewhere (haven't got the link to hand, sorry).

[mcdenife]

Judging by that radio conversation it sounds like one great big bloody mix up.

Altho we have still yet to see any proof from the FIA that they were lying. As yet all we've got is "They lied to us". Well thats all well and good but for all I know the FIA could be lying saying that they were lying!

I know thats doubtful, and I'm not at all trying to say that Mclaren are innocent. I'd just like to see something conclusive from the FIA, because, as a fan, I can't help but feel there's something we're not seeing, and when that happens its usually because somebody has something to hide.

It just make me feel like the FIA are incompetent.

Indeed, what I find strange is why would LH say the team told me to let him pass in an press statement and then one hour later deny this is the case to the stewards knowing fully well there will be a record? And this being the case why did the stewards wait 5 odd days later to say "new evidence" has come to light that LH admitted in a press statement that he was told to let JT pass when everyone else was already aware of this from almost immediately after the race. Indeed Toyota's now withdrawn appeal was based on this. It just doesnt add up.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

No not transcripts of the radio, I've read that too, that just makes me think there was clear confusion and Mclaren need someone who knows the rulebooks, a Brawn or Symonds if you will.

I'm talking about transcripts from the questioning of the driver in the stewards trailer.

[jddh1]

Toyota gets caught cheating with their bendy wings and get sent to the back of the queue.

Agreed

Trulli makes a mistake whilst running 3rd and runs off the track.

Agreed

Lewis makes a legal pass for 3rd, as Trulli is off the track.

Agreed

Trulli makes another mistake by passing Lewis and retaking 3rd position.

Completely disagree. LH let him by because his pit wall told him so. If you read his radio conversation with his pit wall, you can sense that he knew he should not have let Trully by, but he did because he was told to give up position.

Lewis then legally holds position and doesn’t accept the offer to overtake.

Agree, in a way that he was confused as to what the hell to do.

Get it now?

[vall]

Trulli makes another mistake by passing Lewis and retaking 3rd position.

Ooooops! How do you know that? Did you listed to Toyota radio?

[Shaddock]

Lewis let him past in the same way Trulli couldn't let Lewis past?

[Miguel]

Which but above did I get wrong?

The part that's wrong is assuming Trulli made a mistake when overtaking Lewis. He didn't, because Hamilton slowed down and moved off line in order to let him pass. Toyota then tell Trulli to let Hamilton pass, which he doesn't even if he could (front car driving abnormally slow).

[natef1]

Toyota gets caught cheating with their bendy wings and get sent to the back of the queue.

Agreed

Trulli makes a mistake whilst running 3rd and runs off the track.

Agreed

Lewis makes a legal pass for 3rd, as Trulli is off the track.

Agreed

Trulli makes another mistake by passing Lewis and retaking 3rd position.

Completely disagree. LH let him by because his pit wall told him so. If you read his radio conversation with his pit wall, you can sense that he knew he should not have let Trully by, but he did because he was told to give up position.

Lewis then legally holds position and doesn’t accept the offer to overtake.

Agree, in a way that he was confused as to what the hell to do.

Get it now?

So, in fact, there is no controversy around the finishing positions, only the fact that Hamilton changed his story. Unless I'm missing a big part of the puzzle here, in which case someone needs to tell me what the hell is going on. So Hamilton gets his words "muddled" - I'm not making aspersions here - and BANG, you're out of the race, son.