Can’t view this, what’s it about? Thanks
- Login or Register
No account yet? Sign up
Can’t view this, what’s it about? Thanks
Jeddah is for the engines. 79% of the lap will be at full throttle. Lot's of fast corners. Aero configuration with less wing. Cars with good ratio of drag and downforce will have an advantage. I dare to say that we should have an eye on McLaren. They could join the battle.
Thanksjumpingfish wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 15:29Jeddah is for the engines. 79% of the lap will be at full throttle. Lot's of fast corners. Aero configuration with less wing. Cars with good ratio of drag and downforce will have an advantage. I dare to say that we should have an eye on McLaren. They could join the battle.
Right but my statement was what if it gets delayed further? Like about if it gets delayed another 2 years? You get only 6 years of WT or another 4 years, etc etc? At what point is it just a waste ?Mclarensenna wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 01:54https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/09/29/mc ... nd-tunnel/
"“There’s data we simply cannot get at the moment with the facility we’re in.
“It’s a great facility, Toyota, it’s served us incredibly well but we know that facilities built much more recently have been built with the benefit of the technologies available at the time.
“We’re compensating as best we can but we’re definitely missing some more refined data and knowledge and information that we would get otherwise." <-------------- seems like a big handicap Mclaren currently have.
If ready by next year they should get 8 plus years out of it. And there is no 100% guarantee wind tunnels will be banned in 2030. Maybe they will but, time will tell for sure.
You can also use the wind tunnel for the road car division and rent it out as well which many do. (Mercedes rent out to aston martin, Cologne rents to Mclaren and who knows how many more customers they have from road car companies even?)
The question is can you win the championship in the next 8 years or so without the latest high tech wind tunnel?
According to what Seidl keeps saying most likely no. The outdated wind tunnel tech in Cologne is not just missing refined data it is also a big handicap and slows down the team having to fly to Cologne to test parts. It slows down the process of bringing updates and upgrades to the car as quickly as possible like Merc and Redbull seem to be able to do currently with on site wind tunnels as opposed to off site( in another country wind tunnel)
Even 5 years in F1 is a very very long time time, and if the tops teams have state of the art wind tunnels then so must McLarendiffuser wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 17:53Right but my statement was what if it gets delayed further? Like about if it gets delayed another 2 years? You get only 6 years of WT or another 4 years, etc etc? At what point is it just a waste ?Mclarensenna wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 01:54https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/09/29/mc ... nd-tunnel/
"“There’s data we simply cannot get at the moment with the facility we’re in.
“It’s a great facility, Toyota, it’s served us incredibly well but we know that facilities built much more recently have been built with the benefit of the technologies available at the time.
“We’re compensating as best we can but we’re definitely missing some more refined data and knowledge and information that we would get otherwise." <-------------- seems like a big handicap Mclaren currently have.
If ready by next year they should get 8 plus years out of it. And there is no 100% guarantee wind tunnels will be banned in 2030. Maybe they will but, time will tell for sure.
You can also use the wind tunnel for the road car division and rent it out as well which many do. (Mercedes rent out to aston martin, Cologne rents to Mclaren and who knows how many more customers they have from road car companies even?)
The question is can you win the championship in the next 8 years or so without the latest high tech wind tunnel?
According to what Seidl keeps saying most likely no. The outdated wind tunnel tech in Cologne is not just missing refined data it is also a big handicap and slows down the team having to fly to Cologne to test parts. It slows down the process of bringing updates and upgrades to the car as quickly as possible like Merc and Redbull seem to be able to do currently with on site wind tunnels as opposed to off site( in another country wind tunnel)
If the WT cost 1 M.
- 8 years of use is 125 per year.
- 6 years of use is 166 per year.
- 4 years of use is 250 per year.
Don't forget that WT regs for the top 5 teams, on average, will be reduced by 15% starting in 2022. You need to finish 9th or lower in the constructors to be allowed 100% or more of 2021 allowed WT time.
Does beg the question of whether McLaren have looked at following AM's lead and renting time in the (one assumes) state of the art, Mercedes Wind Tunnel?Mclarensenna wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 01:54https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/09/29/mc ... nd-tunnel/
"“There’s data we simply cannot get at the moment with the facility we’re in.
“It’s a great facility, Toyota, it’s served us incredibly well but we know that facilities built much more recently have been built with the benefit of the technologies available at the time.
“We’re compensating as best we can but we’re definitely missing some more refined data and knowledge and information that we would get otherwise." <-------------- seems like a big handicap Mclaren currently have.
If ready by next year they should get 8 plus years out of it. And there is no 100% guarantee wind tunnels will be banned in 2030. Maybe they will but, time will tell for sure.
You can also use the wind tunnel for the road car division and rent it out as well which many do. (Mercedes rent out to aston martin, Cologne rents to Mclaren and who knows how many more customers they have from road car companies even?)
The question is can you win the championship in the next 8 years or so without the latest high tech wind tunnel?
According to what Seidl keeps saying most likely no. The outdated wind tunnel tech in Cologne is not just missing refined data it is also a big handicap and slows down the team having to fly to Cologne to test parts. It slows down the process of bringing updates and upgrades to the car as quickly as possible like Merc and Redbull seem to be able to do currently with on site wind tunnels as opposed to off site( in another country wind tunnel)
On paper this does look like it would suit our strengths.jumpingfish wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 15:29Jeddah is for the engines. 79% of the lap will be at full throttle. Lot's of fast corners. Aero configuration with less wing. Cars with good ratio of drag and downforce will have an advantage. I dare to say that we should have an eye on McLaren. They could join the battle.
Right as well. But my statements and links were outlining all the positives of the wind tunnel which clearly IMHO massively outweigh the negative of a possible wind tunnel ban in 2030.diffuser wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 17:53Right but my statement was what if it gets delayed further? Like about if it gets delayed another 2 years? You get only 6 years of WT or another 4 years, etc etc? At what point is it just a waste ?Mclarensenna wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 01:54https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/09/29/mc ... nd-tunnel/
"“There’s data we simply cannot get at the moment with the facility we’re in.
“It’s a great facility, Toyota, it’s served us incredibly well but we know that facilities built much more recently have been built with the benefit of the technologies available at the time.
“We’re compensating as best we can but we’re definitely missing some more refined data and knowledge and information that we would get otherwise." <-------------- seems like a big handicap Mclaren currently have.
If ready by next year they should get 8 plus years out of it. And there is no 100% guarantee wind tunnels will be banned in 2030. Maybe they will but, time will tell for sure.
You can also use the wind tunnel for the road car division and rent it out as well which many do. (Mercedes rent out to aston martin, Cologne rents to Mclaren and who knows how many more customers they have from road car companies even?)
The question is can you win the championship in the next 8 years or so without the latest high tech wind tunnel?
According to what Seidl keeps saying most likely no. The outdated wind tunnel tech in Cologne is not just missing refined data it is also a big handicap and slows down the team having to fly to Cologne to test parts. It slows down the process of bringing updates and upgrades to the car as quickly as possible like Merc and Redbull seem to be able to do currently with on site wind tunnels as opposed to off site( in another country wind tunnel)
If the WT cost 1 M.
- 8 years of use is 125 per year.
- 6 years of use is 166 per year.
- 4 years of use is 250 per year.
Don't forget that WT regs for the top 5 teams, on average, will be reduced by 15% starting in 2022. You need to finish 9th or lower in the constructors to be allowed 100% or more of 2021 allowed WT time.
After you build a WT, its till costs 10 Million a year to run, 10% of that is just electrical costs to run the fan. I get that it takes time to overnight stuff to Cologne Germany but it is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of time it takes to manufacture those Carbon parts, is it really that big a deal? I threw that out there as a topic of conversation. I don't know what's better...If they're gonna ban WT in favour of CFD, what if they spent that money on getting CFD to work while making use of Cologne until then. Now you're not just catching up to with what everyone else is doing. You're looking towards the future and getting ahead of the game.Mclarensenna wrote: ↑02 Dec 2021, 00:55Right as well. But my statements and links were outlining all the positives of the wind tunnel which clearly IMHO massively outweigh the negative of a possible wind tunnel ban in 2030.diffuser wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 17:53Right but my statement was what if it gets delayed further? Like about if it gets delayed another 2 years? You get only 6 years of WT or another 4 years, etc etc? At what point is it just a waste ?Mclarensenna wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 01:54
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/09/29/mc ... nd-tunnel/
"“There’s data we simply cannot get at the moment with the facility we’re in.
“It’s a great facility, Toyota, it’s served us incredibly well but we know that facilities built much more recently have been built with the benefit of the technologies available at the time.
“We’re compensating as best we can but we’re definitely missing some more refined data and knowledge and information that we would get otherwise." <-------------- seems like a big handicap Mclaren currently have.
If ready by next year they should get 8 plus years out of it. And there is no 100% guarantee wind tunnels will be banned in 2030. Maybe they will but, time will tell for sure.
You can also use the wind tunnel for the road car division and rent it out as well which many do. (Mercedes rent out to aston martin, Cologne rents to Mclaren and who knows how many more customers they have from road car companies even?)
The question is can you win the championship in the next 8 years or so without the latest high tech wind tunnel?
According to what Seidl keeps saying most likely no. The outdated wind tunnel tech in Cologne is not just missing refined data it is also a big handicap and slows down the team having to fly to Cologne to test parts. It slows down the process of bringing updates and upgrades to the car as quickly as possible like Merc and Redbull seem to be able to do currently with on site wind tunnels as opposed to off site( in another country wind tunnel)
If the WT cost 1 M.
- 8 years of use is 125 per year.
- 6 years of use is 166 per year.
- 4 years of use is 250 per year.
Don't forget that WT regs for the top 5 teams, on average, will be reduced by 15% starting in 2022. You need to finish 9th or lower in the constructors to be allowed 100% or more of 2021 allowed WT time.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/daniel-ri ... 024-title/
1. How can Mclaren win a championship with the handicap of using an outdated wind tunnel missing refined data while simultaneously slowing you down being in another country? Ricciardo, Seidl and co have clearly stated in multiple interviews we do not think we can fight for the championship with hurdles in place like outdated wind tunnels and infrastructure. It seems nobody at Mclaren really believes they can fight for titles with a missing advanced wind tunnel in house. They all feel the title push will come in 2024 or so when wind tunnel is up to speed. Clearly Seidl, Ricciardo, Brown must all know something based on their constant mention of this key point the last few years.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... g-mclaren/
"“There’s a lot of things we have coming up, I guess the wind tunnel is one of the biggest,” said Norris, quoted by The Race, referring to a facility McLaren are having constructed."
2. Even Norris re signing 1 of the main reasons he mentioned he was excited for the future is the wind tunnel.
3. Whether Mclaren has 100% wind tunnel time or 15% less etc the difference is they will be able to extract all the refined missing data from it like Mercedes is currently for eg. All teams will suffer wind tunnel time handicaps. No matter what level it is, surely it will be a huge advantage having refined data available regardless of the handicap level though wont it?.
4. Ask yourself this, Aston Martin is also building the latest wind tunnel on site at a huge cost when they have access to the "advanced" wind tunnel at Mercedes. This surely means that on site is a huge advantage then even a local advanced wind tunnel. Imagine the advantage of having the wind tunnel in the same country. So clearly there is a huge benefit to having a wind tunnel on site (which costs yes big money) and Stroll who is close with Wolf has seen this, understood this and decided on this. This is very telling on the key point of having a wind tunnel on site.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2030 ... f/4908594/
5. The wind tunnel ban is not guaranteed. So calculating 8, 6, and 4 years use is also not guaranteed. The number could be 15 years, 20 years or more for all we know. Teams like Wolf already pushing back i would imagine so would stroll and Mclaren who have shiny new wind tunnels coming will as well. Not to mention Ferrari, Renault and Redbull etc
We are all Mclaren fans here. We all want Mclaren to push for the title. The wind tunnel is a very very very good thing not bad decision or disadvantage for Mclaren. Seidl and James Key who both pushed for the wind tunnel know what they are doing. Have faith! Smile the Mclaren championships will be coming
After you build a WT, its till costs 10 Million a year to run, 10% of that is just electrical costs to run the fan. I get that it takes time to overnight stuff to Cologne Germany but it is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of time it takes to manufacture those Carbon parts, is it really that big a deal? I threw that out there as a topic of conversation. I don't know what's better...If they're gonna ban WT in favour of CFD, what if they spent that money on getting CFD to work while making use of Cologne until then. Now you're not just catching up to with what everyone else is doing. You're looking towards the future and getting ahead of the game.Mclarensenna wrote: ↑02 Dec 2021, 00:55Right as well. But my statements and links were outlining all the positives of the wind tunnel which clearly IMHO massively outweigh the negative of a possible wind tunnel ban in 2030.diffuser wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 17:53Right but my statement was what if it gets delayed further? Like about if it gets delayed another 2 years? You get only 6 years of WT or another 4 years, etc etc? At what point is it just a waste ?Mclarensenna wrote: ↑01 Dec 2021, 01:54
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/09/29/mc ... nd-tunnel/
"“There’s data we simply cannot get at the moment with the facility we’re in.
“It’s a great facility, Toyota, it’s served us incredibly well but we know that facilities built much more recently have been built with the benefit of the technologies available at the time.
“We’re compensating as best we can but we’re definitely missing some more refined data and knowledge and information that we would get otherwise." <-------------- seems like a big handicap Mclaren currently have.
If ready by next year they should get 8 plus years out of it. And there is no 100% guarantee wind tunnels will be banned in 2030. Maybe they will but, time will tell for sure.
You can also use the wind tunnel for the road car division and rent it out as well which many do. (Mercedes rent out to aston martin, Cologne rents to Mclaren and who knows how many more customers they have from road car companies even?)
The question is can you win the championship in the next 8 years or so without the latest high tech wind tunnel?
According to what Seidl keeps saying most likely no. The outdated wind tunnel tech in Cologne is not just missing refined data it is also a big handicap and slows down the team having to fly to Cologne to test parts. It slows down the process of bringing updates and upgrades to the car as quickly as possible like Merc and Redbull seem to be able to do currently with on site wind tunnels as opposed to off site( in another country wind tunnel)
If the WT cost 1 M.
- 8 years of use is 125 per year.
- 6 years of use is 166 per year.
- 4 years of use is 250 per year.
Don't forget that WT regs for the top 5 teams, on average, will be reduced by 15% starting in 2022. You need to finish 9th or lower in the constructors to be allowed 100% or more of 2021 allowed WT time.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/daniel-ri ... 024-title/
1. How can Mclaren win a championship with the handicap of using an outdated wind tunnel missing refined data while simultaneously slowing you down being in another country? Ricciardo, Seidl and co have clearly stated in multiple interviews we do not think we can fight for the championship with hurdles in place like outdated wind tunnels and infrastructure. It seems nobody at Mclaren really believes they can fight for titles with a missing advanced wind tunnel in house. They all feel the title push will come in 2024 or so when wind tunnel is up to speed. Clearly Seidl, Ricciardo, Brown must all know something based on their constant mention of this key point the last few years.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... g-mclaren/
"“There’s a lot of things we have coming up, I guess the wind tunnel is one of the biggest,” said Norris, quoted by The Race, referring to a facility McLaren are having constructed."
2. Even Norris re signing 1 of the main reasons he mentioned he was excited for the future is the wind tunnel.
3. Whether Mclaren has 100% wind tunnel time or 15% less etc the difference is they will be able to extract all the refined missing data from it like Mercedes is currently for eg. All teams will suffer wind tunnel time handicaps. No matter what level it is, surely it will be a huge advantage having refined data available regardless of the handicap level though wont it?.
4. Ask yourself this, Aston Martin is also building the latest wind tunnel on site at a huge cost when they have access to the "advanced" wind tunnel at Mercedes. This surely means that on site is a huge advantage then even a local advanced wind tunnel. Imagine the advantage of having the wind tunnel in the same country. So clearly there is a huge benefit to having a wind tunnel on site (which costs yes big money) and Stroll who is close with Wolf has seen this, understood this and decided on this. This is very telling on the key point of having a wind tunnel on site.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2030 ... f/4908594/
5. The wind tunnel ban is not guaranteed. So calculating 8, 6, and 4 years use is also not guaranteed. The number could be 15 years, 20 years or more for all we know. Teams like Wolf already pushing back i would imagine so would stroll and Mclaren who have shiny new wind tunnels coming will as well. Not to mention Ferrari, Renault and Redbull etc
We are all Mclaren fans here. We all want Mclaren to push for the title. The wind tunnel is a very very very good thing not bad decision or disadvantage for Mclaren. Seidl and James Key who both pushed for the wind tunnel know what they are doing. Have faith! Smile the Mclaren championships will be coming
