2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[BlueCheetah66]

I think the main limiting factor for RB in terms of straight-line speed is their drag. Alpha Tauri have decent speed in a straight line and in Qualifying you see that the speed difference between RB and Merc is not that large when they have DRS enabled

[NL_Fer]

Not sure where to ask this as the Saudi thread is locked. But how come RedBull lose so much speed to Mercedes on the straights in the race (Lewis was gaining huge chunks in the race in S2 and S3, yet in qualy the RedBull was faster in S2, and was looking quicker in S3 also until Max binned it).

Usually you would say that RedBull have a better qualy mode, but obviously thats not allowed now.

Any thoughts ?

On most tracks Redbull can extract a bit more traction from the tire, especially on corner exits. Bit this also heavy on the degradation of the tire. So it is fine to do it in a single lap, with a light car. But you will overheat the tyre if you would do it for multiple consecutive laps.

[NathanOlder]

Not sure where to ask this as the Saudi thread is locked. But how come RedBull lose so much speed to Mercedes on the straights in the race (Lewis was gaining huge chunks in the race in S2 and S3, yet in qualy the RedBull was faster in S2, and was looking quicker in S3 also until Max binned it).

Usually you would say that RedBull have a better qualy mode, but obviously thats not allowed now.

Any thoughts ?

On most tracks Redbull can extract a bit more traction from the tire, especially on corner exits. Bit this also heavy on the degradation of the tire. So it is fine to do it in a single lap, with a light car. But you will overheat the tyre if you would do it for multiple consecutive laps.

Yeah it makes sense and is a very likely outcome.

One thing that baffles me is the amount of purple mini sectors in sector 2 ane 3 Max had in Q3. On his last run 6 of the 11 mini sectors were purple to the point he crashed. two sectors where between them had 3 braking points to where he crashed, all high speed.

[Big Tea]

Not sure where to ask this as the Saudi thread is locked. But how come RedBull lose so much speed to Mercedes on the straights in the race (Lewis was gaining huge chunks in the race in S2 and S3, yet in qualy the RedBull was faster in S2, and was looking quicker in S3 also until Max binned it).

Usually you would say that RedBull have a better qualy mode, but obviously thats not allowed now.

Any thoughts ?

On most tracks Redbull can extract a bit more traction from the tire, especially on corner exits. Bit this also heavy on the degradation of the tire. So it is fine to do it in a single lap, with a light car. But you will overheat the tyre if you would do it for multiple consecutive laps.

Yeah it makes sense and is a very likely outcome.

One thing that baffles me is the amount of purple mini sectors in sector 2 ane 3 Max had in Q3. On his last run 6 of the 11 mini sectors were purple to the point he crashed. two sectors where between them had 3 braking points to where he crashed, all high speed.

Time can be gained in a sector without giving the best whole lap time due to entry into or out of a sector giving time in the previous or next sector. Slow in fast out as Crofty so often calls it

[Wouter]

Fernando gives his opinion about Max.

[NathanOlder]

Speaking of alonso, just realised if Lewis pulls off a result this weekend he will have 4 times the championship that Fernando has!!

Staggering, also to think that since Lewis entered F1, Fernando never won a title again!

I wonder if Fernando lining up a possible chance at getting in the RedBull for 2023. Interesting thought. No Honda to block it either.

[Big Tea]

Speaking of alonso, just realised if Lewis pulls off a result this weekend he will have 4 times the championship that Fernando has!!

Staggering, also to think that since Lewis entered F1, Fernando never won a title again!

I wonder if Fernando lining up a possible chance at getting in the RedBull for 2023. Interesting thought. No Honda to block it either.

I think a team with Alonso and Max in would have no chance of winning a title. it takes a front man and a wing man.

I have questions about Merc next year for just this reason

[Alakshendra]

Speaking of alonso, just realised if Lewis pulls off a result this weekend he will have 4 times the championship that Fernando has!!

Staggering, also to think that since Lewis entered F1, Fernando never won a title again!

I wonder if Fernando lining up a possible chance at getting in the RedBull for 2023. Interesting thought. No Honda to block it either.

I think a team with Alonso and Max in would have no chance of winning a title. it takes a front man and a wing man.

I have questions about Merc next year for just this reason

Actually i am hoping that Russel don't end up being a wing man, Bottas was a wing man at the start, now i don't know what he is anymore. Honestly hoping Russel defeating Lewis or driving real well to put some challenge and we get to see a nail-biting season. since both are from same country so there wont be chance of media Bias.

[Jambier]

Speaking of alonso, just realised if Lewis pulls off a result this weekend he will have 4 times the championship that Fernando has!!

Staggering, also to think that since Lewis entered F1, Fernando never won a title again!

I wonder if Fernando lining up a possible chance at getting in the RedBull for 2023. Interesting thought. No Honda to block it either.

Alonso is my favorite driver, but his career is in the past, he is still great, and the only shot he have is a good Alpine to win some races.

He will stay at Alpine until retirement I think, let's hope he grabs some more victories, but for title he is not in the right team.

Alonso and Red Bull could have been a reality in the past, but not the future, sad, because it would have been a very good setup!

[Wouter]

Alonso is my favorite driver, but his career is in the past, he is still great, and the only shot he have is a good Alpine to win some races.

He will stay at Alpine until retirement I think, let's hope he grabs some more victories, but for title he is not in the right team.

Alonso and Red Bull could have been a reality in the past, but not the future, sad, because it would have been a very good setup!

.
I totally agree with every word!

[rogazilla]

...... It seems this deployment strategy in the race is where Merc has a huge advantage with right now. .......... Though the pace Hamilton demostrated in Brasil specific, it didn't look like he needed to slow down to recharge (this is of course may just be the TV broadcast would focus only during action or overtaking to create such illusion). Since this is not really the topic for the above discussion... back to RBR, this is where I think Honda is saying that a new ICE itself wouldn't result in a big gain the way Merc's does.

No, it is really the ICE.
The MGU-K is only a small portion related to the ICE power. So if they just get some 5% more ICE power, which is always available, they save a lot of electrical energy on all the small acceleration phases during the lap. Brazil actually has a lot of them. So they can completely change the deployment strategy more to the main straight without sacrificing time on the small acceleration phases.

This is probably true for Brazil. Does not explain for SA though? It is not that the top speed was that different in quali between the 2 teams? Then it really comes down to deployment. They key in this formula has always been for me at least the balance between ICE power and recovery. What we have to assume is that Merc is able to increase x% of ICE power but still recover enough energy to charge the battery to lap around each lap at a high level but if spec is locked and early in the season, Merc had issue with ERS recovery? This all confuses me.

[hollus]

I am removing all those "agree" +1s and "not your thread" -1s from a few pages back.

This thread is not a private ground for Red Bull fans. Non Red Bull fans are allowed, and welcome to post here, as long as they remain civil and make logical sense. Trolling, no, thanks, and antagonizing just for the sake of it neither, thanks, but reasoned discussion is of course welcome.

[Gillian]

Alonso is my favorite driver, but his career is in the past, he is still great, and the only shot he have is a good Alpine to win some races.

He will stay at Alpine until retirement I think, let's hope he grabs some more victories, but for title he is not in the right team.

Alonso and Red Bull could have been a reality in the past, but not the future, sad, because it would have been a very good setup!

.
I totally agree with every word!

Same!

Got great memories of Alonso in 05/06, then 07 was painful too watch (I like both Hamilton and Alonso) and then he had brilliant races until '14, just couldn't get that WDC again due to circumstances.

He's shown some of that brilliance this year but over the year he's not back to that old level. To be expected I guess.

Maybe the question is if Alonso right now is better than Perez? I think his appreciation towards Verstappen is genuine. Maybe it could work? I know this is probably not going to happen but just thinking about it, the greatest strength of Alonso is his adaptability and staying out of trouble. Isn't that what Red Bull (allegedly) needs? If indeed the Red Bull is skewed towards the needs of Verstappen, would Alonso not be able to adapt to that, better than Perez and those before him? And isn't the ability to stay out of trouble and pickup the points where Verstappen drops them the most important thing Red Bull wants?

[basti313]

...... It seems this deployment strategy in the race is where Merc has a huge advantage with right now. .......... Though the pace Hamilton demostrated in Brasil specific, it didn't look like he needed to slow down to recharge (this is of course may just be the TV broadcast would focus only during action or overtaking to create such illusion). Since this is not really the topic for the above discussion... back to RBR, this is where I think Honda is saying that a new ICE itself wouldn't result in a big gain the way Merc's does.

No, it is really the ICE.
The MGU-K is only a small portion related to the ICE power. So if they just get some 5% more ICE power, which is always available, they save a lot of electrical energy on all the small acceleration phases during the lap. Brazil actually has a lot of them. So they can completely change the deployment strategy more to the main straight without sacrificing time on the small acceleration phases.

This is probably true for Brazil. Does not explain for SA though? It is not that the top speed was that different in quali between the 2 teams? Then it really comes down to deployment. They key in this formula has always been for me at least the balance between ICE power and recovery. What we have to assume is that Merc is able to increase x% of ICE power but still recover enough energy to charge the battery to lap around each lap at a high level but if spec is locked and early in the season, Merc had issue with ERS recovery? This all confuses me.

What do you mean with recovery here?
You would never use the H to "recover" in a way it hurts the ICE, you can only use some spare energy. Compromising ICE power to the H is just nonsense as you translate heat into movement, then into electrical energy, then back into movement...highly inefficient.
The recovery is done when braking or under lift and coast. If Merc had issues with it, is is mainly down to the battery and/or K.
I do not think there is a difference, the turbo and geometry are fairly similar between Honda and Merc. Little sizing differences, but nothing special. The difference is the ICE power.

[TNTHead]

Alonso is my favorite driver, but his career is in the past, he is still great, and the only shot he have is a good Alpine to win some races.

He will stay at Alpine until retirement I think, let's hope he grabs some more victories, but for title he is not in the right team.

Alonso and Red Bull could have been a reality in the past, but not the future, sad, because it would have been a very good setup!

.
I totally agree with every word!

Same!

Got great memories of Alonso in 05/06, then 07 was painful too watch (I like both Hamilton and Alonso) and then he had brilliant races until '14, just couldn't get that WDC again due to circumstances.

He's shown some of that brilliance this year but over the year he's not back to that old level. To be expected I guess.

Maybe the question is if Alonso right now is better than Perez? I think his appreciation towards Verstappen is genuine. Maybe it could work? I know this is probably not going to happen but just thinking about it, the greatest strength of Alonso is his adaptability and staying out of trouble. Isn't that what Red Bull (allegedly) needs? If indeed the Red Bull is skewed towards the needs of Verstappen, would Alonso not be able to adapt to that, better than Perez and those before him? And isn't the ability to stay out of trouble and pickup the points where Verstappen drops them the most important thing Red Bull wants?

VER regards ALO also highly, and may be he even could learn some things from him. But because of his age I consider it extremely unlikely.