Comments on Minardi

[Carbon]

Minardi has certainly raised its own share of news of late. I am curious to know what the good folks of this forum think of Minardi, and if they deserve a place among the F1 elite.

Don't get me wrong, I think small privateer teams are essential to F1, however, if they are unable to compete, and are many seconds off the pace, what purpose are they serving other then allowing entry level drivers into F1? What makes Paul S. keep going, the idea of a buy-out down the road, or landing a big sponsor allowing more development and ultimately, more speed?

Curious.

[DaveKillens]

x

[Carbon]

Exactly! For F1 to be successful, without doubt, it needs a good number of cars on the starting grid. BUT, more importantly perhaps, those cars have to be somewhat competitive amongst themselves.

I completely agree with you, PS made a farce of the weekend with his grandstanding. In many people's eyes, F1 is in somewhat of a turbid state at the moment. The kind of showmanship scene in the days leading up to the GP only serves to distance people from the sport, and to ostrasize Minardi further.

[klippe]

It was interesting to hear people talking on the trams that travel to and from the track at Melbourne.

The general feeling was that Stoddard should have just got on with getting his cars ready for this season rather than causing a big fight and "doing the dirty" by getting the Australian courts involved. A very stupid move in my opinion.

If I was a big company looking to sponsor a team, I'd shy away from Minardi. The whinging coming out of Stoddards mouth is getting a bit tiresome I feel (my opinion only). And to have him hold the whole deal to ransom the other day was just disgusting.

The worst thing of all is that by some miracle they managed to get their cars to conform to the new rules by Saturday morning - after apparently having no way of doing it over several months during the off season. Makes me wonder if they were trying to get an advantage by running older spec cars. Lets re-iterate again:- they managed to do in less than 24 hours, what they said they couldn't do over several months - due to costs etc - that is change their cars to 2005 spec.

When the proverbial hit the fan, they miraculously got the cars sorted in time. That's just a joke. To treat the FIA and AUssie GP organisers as such is outrageous. I know that if Melbourne ever loses the GP, Stoddard will be remembered for his actions.

Cliff
P.S. Perhaps to start to save money Paul could give up smoking? - those things are expensive nowadays

[West]

Well, I understand that PS is trying to cut costs, but when I heard about his team having 2005-spec parts, I was like "whatever."

This is an article which may explain PS' actions a little more clearly (IMO, at least):

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14359.html

[dumrick]

Yeah, the issue here is politics and Stoddard the man to make the dirty work for the GPWC people (without Ferrari). Personally, I think the Concorde Agreement had its place in the beggining of the 80's, in a crisis situation. Now, the privileged ones with the agreements done back then (Ecclestone, Ferrari), just want to keep the status quo.

Making F1 to still be governed by a secret agreement just has no sense and FIA should step forward and take control. The issue is that Mr. Mosley don't want to loose the Golden-Egg Goose (or whatever it's called, hope you understand).

So, this way, I sympathize with Mr. Stoddard's fight. For me, he is one of the good guys, but this is business and politics, there is only privilege protection and money making.

[RacingManiac]

Problem is Stoddard is not a GPWC people, as he stands nothing to gain from an primarily manufactrurer based series.

Fact is Stoddard held an entire grid and the fan hostage for selfish reason, and regardless of BS that "he won", Minardi definitely lost a whole lot of sympathy from people. The other teams agreed to it because they have beef with the governing body for their own agenda(TV payment, regulation and so forth), while all at the same time taking a different stand Ferrari were again shown as the "bad guy". At the time when the the sport of F1 is already suffering from various forms of public crisis, to stir up BS like that was neither fair nor justified.

Minardi itself IMO should really give up their spot in the sport. When you can still compete at the minimum level(albeit 4-7 sec a lap slower), there is still reason for you to be there. But when you start using excuse as not being able to make a competitive car and therefore should be exampted from the rule, is just saying that you are not worthy of being in F1. Regardless whether it was a scared tactic or not. At that point you have declared yourself unfit, and should therefore leave.

[Lafora]

The last driver with notable talent to come from that team was Alonso.

This was when Giancarlo Minardi was still involved with the team.

The Minardi we see now is nothing like the Minardi back then; I think Stoddy should concentrate on his commercial jet business. It'll do both parties a lot of good IMO.

[mcdenife]

Racing....wrote

Fact is Stoddard held an entire grid and the fan hostage for selfish reason, and regardless of BS that "he won", Minardi definitely lost a whole lot of sympathy from people. The other teams agreed to it because they have beef with the governing body for their own agenda(TV payment, regulation and so forth), while all at the same time taking a different stand Ferrari were again shown as the "bad guy". At the time when the the sport of F1 is already suffering from various forms of public crisis, to stir up BS like that was neither fair nor justified.

So you believe fighting for your very survival in this sport and indeed long term survival of the sport itself is selfish? I believe PS should fight and not just roll over and die. "Lost sympathy from people" you say? well this is not about sympathy. This is about the long term survival of the sport and of minardi as a team. PS has not lost the sympathy of anyone who really understands what is going on.

[scarbs]

I recall the days when Minardi had no money but designed inoovative cars within their tiny budget and were pretty happy with their lot. I think this character has been what has enamoured Minardi to the fans. Since PS has taken over I feel this element of the team is beign hidden by him constant seeking press attention.
But F1 is a business and you need cash to compete in the business that you have chosen. The stark reality is Paul should either get the money in and run according to the rules or pack up and run a GP2 team.

[mcdenife]

Scarbs, I believe you are someone who has more inside knowledge of this sport than most of us and should understand more than most why minardi cannot design innovative cars within their tiny budget as in the past. The fact is, if PS got all the money in the world, it wont make much difference. Toyota and other not-so-succesful-but-richer teams are proof of that. In short what PS did was less about money than about the arbitrary nature of rule changes and governance of the sport. That is precisely what is stifeling innovation and killing the sport.

[RacingManiac]

Racing....wrote

Fact is Stoddard held an entire grid and the fan hostage for selfish reason, and regardless of BS that "he won", Minardi definitely lost a whole lot of sympathy from people. The other teams agreed to it because they have beef with the governing body for their own agenda(TV payment, regulation and so forth), while all at the same time taking a different stand Ferrari were again shown as the "bad guy". At the time when the the sport of F1 is already suffering from various forms of public crisis, to stir up BS like that was neither fair nor justified.

So you believe fighting for your very survival in this sport and indeed long term survival of the sport itself is selfish? I believe PS should fight and not just roll over and die. "Lost sympathy from people" you say? well this is not about sympathy. This is about the long term survival of the sport and of minardi as a team. PS has not lost the sympathy of anyone who really understands what is going on.

I hardly see by putting the sport into more negative light, regardless of the outcome, was helping the sport of F1 to "Survive". Indeed F1 is expensive for the small teams like Minardi and so forth. But thats the reality of captalist world in which ever field. There is nothing to stop the big team from getting more money as they presents a more viable marketing platform for their sponsors as they are the successful team in the lime light. Minardi have indeed done whatever they could to survive to til now, never did use their size as an excuse for not being able to comply with the rule. Although this constant rule change certainly does not help their cause in keeping the "development" cost to a minimum, but the sport has also changed that no longer is there a qualification limit that if you are under that you will not be running on the track. So really the competitiveness question for not being able to run is out of the window. If Minardi sticks to making a car that's legal then they will be on the grid and run on Saturday and Sunday, instead of making a fuss about it being not competitive and thus gives them an excuse for being above the rule is supposed to be.

From an engineering student's point of view, best innovation happens when you are cornered, when the rule is written strictly and you are forced to work in a confined parameter. The one that can come up with the best, most innovative solution is the one to have success. Money can't buy innovative thinking, thus it was never a constraint....

[mcdenife]

RacingManiac wrote

So really the competitiveness question for not being able to run is out of the window. If Minardi sticks to making a car that's legal then they will be on the grid and run on Saturday and Sunday, instead of making a fuss about it being not competitive and thus gives them an excuse for being above the rule is supposed to be.

The point was not about them being above the rule or whether they could or could not make their cars legal.
This was about the validity of the rules and how said rules were introduced.
The point was that the FIA does not have the authority to impose rules without consultation. Max claims there was a fax vote and that a lack of response implied agreement. Jesus wept...this from an intelligent man who also happens to be a lawyer. There are too many issues and too much at state to take a simplistic view that PS could have made his cars legal all along rather than drag the FIA to the courts.
For far too long the teams have just rolled over either 'cos they did not want to rock the boat or out of greed. Finally it appears someone is making a stand for the sport and we tell him to "shut up and let the sun shine".
There is this saying: that the very thing that kills a dog stops its pups from opening their eyes. Know what that is? GREED. The teams seem to finally apreciate that Bernie offers them much more money than they could ever hope for is no reason to close their eyes to all that is wrong with the sport. And yes PS cast a cloud over one race in trying to deal with the bigger one hanging over the sport.

From an engineering student's point of view, best innovation happens when you are cornered, when the rule is written strictly and you are forced to work in a confined parameter. The one that can come up with the best, most innovative solution is the one to have success. Money can't buy innovative thinking, thus it was never a constraint....

Precisely my point. The governance of the sport and the manner in which rule changes are introduced gives the teams less scope to be innovative.

My apologies for rant. I guess I am just too passionate about sport.

Itmi