2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Csmith1980]

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.

You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/

Seems you’ve confused the word “Fact” with the word “speculation”.

[SiLo]

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.

You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/

Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?

[Wouter]

Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.

You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/

Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?

I've listed a few reliable sources where you can find facts.
Why are you Mercedes fans always nagging for so long? Why do you want a link for everything?
Do you only read the Mercedes thread?

If I want information about a competing PU, I will have to do my own research.
I really don't get that information here from the Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault fans.

I want to leave it at this.

[Jolle]

You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/

Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?

I've listed a few reliable sources where you can find facts.
Why are you Mercedes fans always nagging for so long? Why do you want a link for everything?
Do you only read the Mercedes thread?

If I want information about a competing PU, I will have to do my own research.
I really don't get that information here from the Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault fans.

I want to leave it at this.

Wouter, I’m under the impression that when someone posts news, a theory or opinion about Verstappen, Redbull or Honda that doesn’t align with your idea of their flawlessness, you get quite direct without real opinion, facts or your own theories, sometimes even with almost personal attacks. I don’t find this pleasant on this forum.

[Stu]

I would be surprised if the power loss hasn’t been recovered, that should be relatively straightforward, however the likelihood of there being zero cost in other areas are remote, this could be fuel economy, combustion speed, temperatures or several other things. Lubrication system efficiency also boosts power, as does turbo efficiency.
We heard big noises from Mercedes about them already running their 2022 power unit in a chassis, but this far ahead of the homologation deadline, I’m not so sure.
Development for power and reliability will continue for as long as is possible. Some items will definitely be finalised by now (those with long lead times), but the freedom to experiment and research will go right to the last!!

[Wouter]

Wouter, I’m under the impression that when someone posts news, a theory or opinion about Verstappen, Redbull or Honda that doesn’t align with your idea of their flawlessness, you get quite direct without real opinion, facts or your own theories, sometimes even with almost personal attacks. I don’t find this pleasant on this forum.

I'm sorry to hear you have that impression of me @Jolle. I can assure you I'm not like that.
It will depend on the way I write something. I will keep that in mind from now on,
because it should remain enjoyable for everyone, right?

[Jolle]

I would be surprised if the power loss hasn’t been recovered, that should be relatively straightforward, however the likelihood of there being zero cost in other areas are remote, this could be fuel economy, combustion speed, temperatures or several other things. Lubrication system efficiency also boosts power, as does turbo efficiency.
We heard big noises from Mercedes about them already running their 2022 power unit in a chassis, but this far ahead of the homologation deadline, I’m not so sure.
Development for power and reliability will continue for as long as is possible. Some items will definitely be finalised by now (those with long lead times), but the freedom to experiment and research will go right to the last!!

Me too. That is, by Bahrain. My other question remains; who is more responsible for clawing back this performance deficit, the oil partner ExxonMOBIL or Honda? If it’s Honda, are those resources that are in unsettled transition phase to Red Bull Powertrains, going to remain deployed towards R&D to regain the performance level back?

Could that mean Mercedes, (Renault..?) and Ferrari -and their partner teams-benefit from the engine manufacturers having spent more time gaining performance in other areas where the Honda engineers would otherwise be focusing on if they weren’t behind on recouping the performance from E10 fuel?

Wouter, I’m under the impression that when someone posts news, a theory or opinion about Verstappen, Redbull or Honda that doesn’t align with your idea of their flawlessness, you get quite direct without real opinion, facts or your own theories, sometimes even with almost personal attacks. I don’t find this pleasant on this forum.

I'm sorry to hear you have that impression of me @Jolle. I can assure you I'm not like that.
It will depend on the way I write something. I will keep that in mind from now on,
because it should remain enjoyable for everyone, right?

umm..

And please, we’re not 12 anymore. The gifs and “funny” links don’t contribute any value to a discussion.

[SiLo]

You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/

Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?

I've listed a few reliable sources where you can find facts.
Why are you Mercedes fans always nagging for so long? Why do you want a link for everything?
Do you only read the Mercedes thread?

If I want information about a competing PU, I will have to do my own research.
I really don't get that information here from the Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault fans.

I want to leave it at this.

Similarly I could just say The Internet as a source and it would have the same effect. And it's not just me here, many others are also looking for this information and they are also being deprived of a source what you insinuated. If it was just your opinion, then that's fine, just let us know so we can distinguish the two. I actually hold that opinion, I think Honda will find all the power lost from the switch to E10, much like the reports of Mercedes and Ferrari.

As yet, there appear to be not reports conflicting with Marko's comments about the loss of power from the switch to E10. This is after doing some reading on the topic and checking out the provided links.

[lio007]

Oh Lord, let pre-season testing start, it can't be soon enough!

[hollus]

The last 3 pages had 20% content, 80% personal battle.
A few people have gotten PMs and many posts have been deleted.

Back on topic, please. Seriously, no one comes here to se the member vs member battles. that's not what this site is about.
As a general rule, BTW:
Asking for information, is OK.
Demanding information, is not so OK. No one is on trial.

Go personal below this line at you own peril.

[Just_a_fan]

Asking for information, is OK.
Demanding information, is not so OK. No one is on trial.

"Please provide a source" is ok, "Provide a source" isn't? Is that where the line is? The former is a request, the later a demand. It's a semantic difference for many, especially non-native English speakers.

Not having a go, dear moderator, just pointing out that there is a very fine line here.

If someone states a "fact", either directly or by the manner of their post, it's not unreasonable on a technical forum for others to ask for sources / background.

If someone expresses an opinion, then that's "freedom of speech" stuff and should be considered accordingly by all concerned.

If asked for sources when "facts" are stated, giving extremely general references that don't actually deal with the issue being discussed is not great. This is a technical forum - reference a fact or state that it's an opinion. It's not a tricky thing to ask forum members to do.

If you can't substantiate a point, then say it's an opinion. If someone states a "fact" without substantiation then, in my opinion, the mods should be dealing with that post, not the ones requesting clarification.

[langedweil]

My oh my .. it's only Jan 20th and things are already heating up.
Shouldn't we just wait for car presentations in a couple of weeks (with most likely no parts that will be raced with), the first testweek late Feb, or even some official announcements !?
I'd say Honda will be just as involved as they have been, and I just hope last years battle to end didn't drain development too much. But based on totally nothing, I fear RB will start off 2022 at least as 3rd fastest, after Fer and Merc.

[Henri]

Newey has to show if his not overrated because dan fallow was the chief designer of the cars not him.. lets see if they competitive ?

[Ryar]

Newey has to show if his not overrated because dan fallow was the chief designer of the cars not him.. lets see if they competitive ?

I had mentioned this previously, Newey stepped aside from his responsibilities in 2016 and Dan Fallows led the 2017 car development, which turned out to be a dud unfortunately. Everyone thought there was going to be a Spec B coming out soon because the new car was completely bland, but it never happened. Newey was brought back to bring some competitiveness for the car that resulted in decent progress and a more respectable 2018. We have witnessed it already. For a man who has delivered so many championships with different teams, there is hardly anything left to prove really. Nothing is going damage his reputation.

[ispano6]

Newey has to show if his not overrated because dan fallow was the chief designer of the cars not him.. lets see if they competitive ?

Exactly who does he need to prove to that he isn't overrated? Overrated usually applies to someone who is new and without a proven track record.

From Wikipedia:
Newey-designed cars have won the following Formula One World Constructors' Championships:

1992 – Williams FW14B
1993 – Williams FW15C
1994 – Williams FW16
1996 – Williams FW18
1997 – Williams FW19
1998 – McLaren MP4/13
2010 – Red Bull RB6
2011 – Red Bull RB7
2012 – Red Bull RB8
2013 – Red Bull RB9
2021 – Red Bull RB16b (drivers championship, could have been a constructor's championship too)