Mercedes-Benz Vision EQXX

[J.A.W.]

No, the `80s W201/190 was discontinued by M-B - as too small - whereas its next-size up W124/300
series was a success, & duly morphed into the C-class, but it was only after M-B 'went cheap' that
small cars were reintroduced into their line-up, (& not even M-B badged, with the micro-car Smart)..

Currently, an effective 'autobahn sturmmaschine' in EV form cannot be small/inexpensive.

Having driven, owned etc most of them myself. The W124 became the E-Class.
The W201 (190) was succeeded by the W202, the C-Class. The size difference between the W201 and W202 is small.

The 190 was a selling success at the time.

Yeah, I do stand corrected on the W124 morph-to-E Class matter, I've only owned M-B's Coupes,
so the whole E/C change from petrol-injection & Coupe nomenclature into BMW-style alphanumerics
Class-type differentiation was a bit confusing, but M-B def' never sold a W201/190 Coupe,
(an option which wasn't neglected in the W202 - though via a 'cheap' BMW style - & not pillarless).

However the fact remains, the utility of the W201/190 was lacking due to size (unsuitable as a taxi/kombi-wagen/limo, cop-car, etc), & it was too expensive for those looking for a smaller semi
sub-compact car, (they had to wait for the W202, which was of markedly lesser quality, to match
the perceived market requirement - though it debased M-B as an 'engineering excellence' marque).

Never-the-less, M-B's foolish attempt to go 'down-market' & compete with Toyota's Lexus brand
was a mistake, & the triumph of 'bean-counter' over engineering duly cruelled M-B's reputation,
something I'd suggest M-B won't want to risk with an EV hurried into 'up-market' Tesla status..

[Jolle]

No, the `80s W201/190 was discontinued by M-B - as too small - whereas its next-size up W124/300
series was a success, & duly morphed into the C-class, but it was only after M-B 'went cheap' that
small cars were reintroduced into their line-up, (& not even M-B badged, with the micro-car Smart)..

Currently, an effective 'autobahn sturmmaschine' in EV form cannot be small/inexpensive.

Having driven, owned etc most of them myself. The W124 became the E-Class.
The W201 (190) was succeeded by the W202, the C-Class. The size difference between the W201 and W202 is small.

The 190 was a selling success at the time.

Yeah, I do stand corrected on the W124 morph-to-E Class matter, I've only owned M-B's Coupes,
so the whole E/C change from petrol-injection & Coupe nomenclature into BMW-style alphanumerics
Class-type differentiation was a bit confusing, but M-B def' never sold a W201/190 Coupe,
(an option which wasn't neglected in the W202 - though via a 'cheap' BMW style - & not pillarless).

However the fact remains, the utility of the W201/190 was lacking due to size (unsuitable as a taxi/kombi-wagen/limo, cop-car, etc), & it was too expensive for those looking for a smaller semi
sub-compact car, (they had to wait for the W202, which was of markedly lesser quality, to match
the perceived market requirement - though it debased M-B as an 'engineering excellence' marque).

Never-the-less, M-B's foolish attempt to go 'down-market' & compete with Toyota's Lexus brand
was a mistake, & the triumph of 'bean-counter' over engineering duly cruelled M-B's reputation,
something I'd suggest M-B won't want to risk with an EV hurried into 'up-market' Tesla status..

I think you look at MB and there range in the eighties to much with American eyes. Lexus was never big in Europe and even only started when the 190 was at the end of its lifespan (1989)
The 190 laid the foundation for the three saloon range Mercedes has for years that followed, because before that you only had two (the 200/300 and S Class). 190/C-classes were never really used as taxis because that’s what the 200/300 and E-class is for. The 190 was ment to compete against the 3 series and passats and it did very well! The streets in Europe were filled with 190’s, especially the 190D model. Coupes also, especially in those days, never were a big thing. Only when the American market became real interested again, they started diversifying their range.
Because of the succes of the 190, they started looking even at the range below that, giving us the first A-class a decade later.

[J.A.W.]

Not "American eyes", but not 'small Euro-state eyes', either.

The W201/190 did the decade in production then usual for M-B, only finishing in `93,
(4 years after Lexus arrived) & its C-Class replacement was a 'cheap' unit,
& proved problematic in durability/functional quality, something that was
fundamentally unacceptable for Toyota with its premium Lexus brand.

Curiously enough, M-B did a fairly large-scale EV evaluation exercise, ~30 years ago,
converting a fleet of late-production W201/190s to full EV, & then running them
comprehensively in 'real world' settings/usage.

Their findings then, & eventualities since - indicate why the EQXX has to demonstrate
'real world' abilities that befit large/expensive M-B car/driver - attribute expectations..

[Greg Locock]

Lexus LS400 blew the entire automotive noise and vibration community apart, in Europe as well as USA.

Sure it was too big physically, and too conservative styling wise, to be a serious competitor in Europe, but we knew it was there and we knew what could be done.

[Stu]

Lexus LS400 blew the entire automotive noise and vibration community apart, in Europe as well as USA.

Sure it was too big physically, and too conservative styling wise, to be a serious competitor in Europe, but we knew it was there and we knew what could be done.

They sold loads in the London area as the ‘h’ variant meant no congestion charge…

[Greg Locock]

I meant when it was introduced in 1989

[Jolle]

Don’t forget, Mercedes was way ahead of the curve with the original A-Class (the moose flipper). They designed it to have an electric or hydrogen version from the ground up (with that double floor) but the tech didn’t materialised quick enough to really make that happen.

[Greg Locock]

No wonder it fell over in the moose test, high floor=high roof = high CG.

Was the A class originally conceived as an electric car?

Former Daimler executive Juergen Hubbert "No, that idea first emerged with the Smart and Nicolas Hayek."

Ahem.

[Stu]

No wonder it fell over in the moose test, high floor=high roof = high CG.

Was the A class originally conceived as an electric car?

Former Daimler executive Juergen Hubbert "No, that idea first emerged with the Smart and Nicolas Hayek."

Ahem.

I remember it being part of the explanation for the unusual structure of the original A-class (although that could have been pure hyperbole to show how forward-thinking they were, as I seem to recall it was also claimed to make it safer in front & rear collisions as the major masses - engine/gearbox & rear axle could collapse into the ‘hollow’ floor structure during a heavy impact - this would give them a similar amount of ‘crumple-zone’ to their larger cousins (C & E class)). In theory…

[Greg Locock]

At the time it was the crash argument that was put forward (it's a bit dubious as a first, people have been submarining engines since the 70s). After the fact the fanbois came up with their theories.

[Jolle]

No wonder it fell over in the moose test, high floor=high roof = high CG.

Was the A class originally conceived as an electric car?

Former Daimler executive Juergen Hubbert "No, that idea first emerged with the Smart and Nicolas Hayek."

Ahem.

I remember it being part of the explanation for the unusual structure of the original A-class (although that could have been pure hyperbole to show how forward-thinking they were, as I seem to recall it was also claimed to make it safer in front & rear collisions as the major masses - engine/gearbox & rear axle could collapse into the ‘hollow’ floor structure during a heavy impact - this would give them a similar amount of ‘crumple-zone’ to their larger cousins (C & E class)). In theory…

I’ve driven some, as a loaner when my C-class was in for a service, and they are weird. You really sit on this big box which. From the outside they look as big as the Scenic that came out at the same time, but it’s actually a normal hatchback on a 30cm high box.

The Smart was around that time but didn’t start as a Mercedes project, it was the brainchild of Swatch, the watch company. Also, ahead of its time if you look now. Cars around or just slightly bigger then Smart are now the big sellers (like the C1, iQ etc etc).
Trying to get Daimler on board as an early investor, Tesla build a monster of a Smart, with a roadster motor. Apparently the CEO of Daimler went full teenager driving the thing

[J.A.W.]

Lexus LS400 blew the entire automotive noise and vibration community apart, in Europe as well as USA.

Sure it was too big physically, and too conservative styling wise, to be a serious competitor in Europe, but we knew it was there and we knew what could be done.

Yeah, the mighty `89 Toyota Lexcen, eh Greg...



Actually, I'd heard that ol' man Toyoda was quite impressed by Ben Lexcen's masterful skills as
1st to design/build a race-boat - proven capable of wresting the America's Cup off the NY mob,
but when he rode in an Aussie Toyota Lexcen - several of his exec's had the 'ginsu' treatment..

Even so, he still liked Lexcen, so Lexus brand it was, for the new fancy-pants luxo-tech machine,

[Greg Locock]

That was the bastard offspring of the Button Plan, another nail in the coffin of the Australian automotive industry. For those who didn't live through it, at the time Australia had half a dozen car companies and somehow Senator Button thought that rebadging a Dunnydoor as a Toyota, and a Camry as Holden, etc, would increase competition.

Well I suppose it introduced a generation of Holden drivers to the Camry, so they had a nice time. And of course we got Nissan Patrols, a fun lease car.