2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[ispano6]

He's overrated because he wins top teams to win at layton house he didn't win.. plus rory Byrne outclassed many times.. and i.m not a newey hater just that he's not colin Chapman level

Ok nevermind, I rest my case, no point in discussing further.

[Scalexf1]

He's overrated because he wins top teams to win at layton house he didn't win.. plus rory Byrne outclassed many times.. and i.m not a newey hater just that he's not colin Chapman level

Ok nevermind, I rest my case, no point in discussing further.

Drive to survive was not around when Leyton house put a F3000 car down on the grid in their first year in F1.

Moderator edit, deleted post removed.

[west52keep64]

That's good news:
https://twitter.com/redbullracing/statu ... 92576?s=20

It's probably no coincidence that RB let Dan Fallows go to Aston Martin Cognizant F1 Team much earlier
and Mercedes now let Hodgkinson go to RB Powertrains much earlier.

Because employers can't hold employees to ransom in the UK. The employers have to act in a reasonable way. As with the Dan Fallows case, it's unlikely Mercedes or Red Bull could have secured an outcome that fully enforces the notice period, so they agree a compromise.

It's very doubtful these two announcements are linked in any way other than what I've just said.

[Ryar]

That's good news:
https://twitter.com/redbullracing/statu ... 92576?s=20

It's probably no coincidence that RB let Dan Fallows go to Aston Martin Cognizant F1 Team much earlier
and Mercedes now let Hodgkinson go to RB Powertrains much earlier.

Because employers can't hold employees to ransom in the UK. The employers have to act in a reasonable way. As with the Dan Fallows case, it's unlikely Mercedes or Red Bull could have secured an outcome that fully enforces the notice period, so they agree a compromise.

It's very doubtful these two announcements are linked in any way other than what I've just said.

You should really understand how the employment laws work and the significance of gardening leaves. I don't think these negotiations took place because they are illegal and can't stand in courts. You argued initially that Dan has already started whereas he basically did an illegal new contract without consent from his current employer. As per that he was to join AM in Jan this year. But despite with negotiations he is to join by April. Toto is a stake holder in AM, which is enough to suggest these two negotiations are connected. Nothing is coincidence in F1 world.

[west52keep64]

You should really understand how the employment laws work and the significance of gardening leaves. I don't think these negotiations took place because they are illegal and can't stand in courts. You argued initially that Dan has already started whereas he basically did an illegal new contract without consent from his current employer. As per that he was to join AM in Jan this year. But despite with negotiations he is to join by April. Toto is a stake holder in AM, which is enough to suggest these two negotiations are connected. Nothing is coincidence in F1 world.

I mean... the negotiations have happened, because both people have been released from their contracts

There's nothing "illegal" about negotiating an early release from a lengthy notice period, it happens all the time. These are matters of civil law, not criminal law.

[Jolle]

You should really understand how the employment laws work and the significance of gardening leaves. I don't think these negotiations took place because they are illegal and can't stand in courts. You argued initially that Dan has already started whereas he basically did an illegal new contract without consent from his current employer. As per that he was to join AM in Jan this year. But despite with negotiations he is to join by April. Toto is a stake holder in AM, which is enough to suggest these two negotiations are connected. Nothing is coincidence in F1 world.

I mean... the negotiations have happened, because both people have been released from their contracts

There's nothing "illegal" about negotiating an early release from a lengthy notice period, it happens all the time. These are matters of civil law, not criminal law.

It’s legal to negotiate an early release but it’s illegal to have an agreement between companies not to hire each other’s employees, like they had in Silicon Valley some time ago. One does benefit and protect the employee, the other one clearly doesn’t.

[west52keep64]

It’s legal to negotiate an early release but it’s illegal to have an agreement between companies not to hire each other’s employees, like they had in Silicon Valley some time ago. One does benefit and protect the employee, the other one clearly doesn’t.

Yes I agree... but where did that come from? I don't think I suggested that was what was happening? All I suggested was that the early release of both employees from their contracts was the result of their employers being fair and reasonable.

Also, a breach of employment contract is a matter of civil law, not criminal, so we shouldn't use the term "illegal" as it normally refers to criminal law.

[Kingshark]

You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

That’s good to hear Wouter.

I hope that Honda are still working every bit as hard on the 2022 PU as they were working before.

I think that a 15 horsepower deficit is something that a brilliant chassis and driver can compensate for.

Anything more becomes tricky, especially when you are up against a brilliant team and driver combination like Hamilton and Mercedes.

[Csmith1980]

I assume you also know that Mercedes had a much better and faster PU all along.
Then your car can be as good, but then you can never win.

That's all part of the sport - getting the right engine is as important as getting the aero right. As technical director of the team, part of the failure to get the right engine falls at his feet. You have to accept responsibility for failures as well as accept the plaudits for successes.

McLaren had one of the best engines back when Newey was there - the Ilmor-Mercedes units were as good as any on the grid. So that needs to be remembered.

Red Bull didn't have the fastest PU in the Vettel-winning years, but they had the PU that gave the best diffuser blowing performance, even when the FIA tried to reduce the effectiveness of blowing. They tended not to give Renault the credit back then, but were quick to throw them under the bus in the hybrid era. That sticks in the throat a bit, for me - "we're winning because we're the best but we're losing because they messed up".

Anyway, as I say in another post, I'm looking forward to seeing what Newey's team comes up with this year. The PU is now top drawer so it's going to come down to the designers to get the platform working well. Exciting times for us all, I'm sure you'll agree.

They at least shared the engine, something Mercedes was too afraid to do. Inferior chassis maybe?

Why on earth would Mercedes give its engine to its closest rival? Let’s not forget that Mercedes has comprehensively beat all its customer teams so the chassis can’t be all that bad.

[Alexf1]

That's all part of the sport - getting the right engine is as important as getting the aero right. As technical director of the team, part of the failure to get the right engine falls at his feet. You have to accept responsibility for failures as well as accept the plaudits for successes.

McLaren had one of the best engines back when Newey was there - the Ilmor-Mercedes units were as good as any on the grid. So that needs to be remembered.

Red Bull didn't have the fastest PU in the Vettel-winning years, but they had the PU that gave the best diffuser blowing performance, even when the FIA tried to reduce the effectiveness of blowing. They tended not to give Renault the credit back then, but were quick to throw them under the bus in the hybrid era. That sticks in the throat a bit, for me - "we're winning because we're the best but we're losing because they messed up".

Anyway, as I say in another post, I'm looking forward to seeing what Newey's team comes up with this year. The PU is now top drawer so it's going to come down to the designers to get the platform working well. Exciting times for us all, I'm sure you'll agree.

They at least shared the engine, something Mercedes was too afraid to do. Inferior chassis maybe?

Why on earth would Mercedes give its engine to its closest rival? Let’s not forget that Mercedes has comprehensively beat all its customer teams so the chassis can’t be all that bad.

You're answering your own question. They only want to supply teams that are not close rivals.

[Csmith1980]

They at least shared the engine, something Mercedes was too afraid to do. Inferior chassis maybe?

Why on earth would Mercedes give its engine to its closest rival? Let’s not forget that Mercedes has comprehensively beat all its customer teams so the chassis can’t be all that bad.

You're answering your own question. They only want to supply teams that are not close rivals.

Same goes for virtual any sports team or business, right.

[Alexf1]

Why on earth would Mercedes give its engine to its closest rival? Let’s not forget that Mercedes has comprehensively beat all its customer teams so the chassis can’t be all that bad.

You're answering your own question. They only want to supply teams that are not close rivals.

Same goes for virtual any sports team or business, right.

Not in F1 till Toto started it. RB even had a Ferrari engine before they switched to Renault engines (even though there was a factory Renault team at the time)

[Jolle]

You're answering your own question. They only want to supply teams that are not close rivals.

Same goes for virtual any sports team or business, right.

Not in F1 till Toto started it. RB even had a Ferrari engine before they switched to Renault engines (even though there was a factory Renault team at the time)

At the time they signed a contract with Renault, RedBull had one podium and no Adrian Newey.

[Alexf1]

Same goes for virtual any sports team or business, right.

Not in F1 till Toto started it. RB even had a Ferrari engine before they switched to Renault engines (even though there was a factory Renault team at the time)

At the time they signed a contract with Renault, RedBull had one podium and no Adrian Newey.

And no engine supply blocking between teams

[Jolle]

Not in F1 till Toto started it. RB even had a Ferrari engine before they switched to Renault engines (even though there was a factory Renault team at the time)

At the time they signed a contract with Renault, RedBull had one podium and no Adrian Newey.

And no engine supply blocking between teams

Renault blocked McLaren getting their engines in 93, Briatore had to buy Liger to get their Renault contract for 95 and RedBull bought Minardi to get their hands on that Ferrari engine.

They all didn’t go willingly.

When the RedBull switched to Renault, they were seen as a midfielder, like Aston Martin today. The Stewart factory and team never had any succes and the Sauber takeover didn’t work out. Aston Martin and especially McLaren had more succes when they signed with Mercedes then when RedBull did with Renault.

As soon Renault became ambitious again, around 2014/2015, problems were there between RedBull and Renault.

Mercedes of course, owning McLaren at the time, did supply to one of their rivals: Brawn.