Driver aero feedback.

[godlameroso]

I wonder if anyone has tried using the driver cooling duct as a feedback mechanism for the driver to gauge how much downforce the car is generating.

[nzjrs]

For what purpose?

[Jolle]

How would you imagine that? Like.. a wind speed meter by blowing the air against your toes?
If.. it is useful info, it’s two lines of code to display the relative airspeed on the dash. If you wanted they could even display quite accurate downforce figures, even relative to other laps.

[godlameroso]

For what purpose?

If a driver can feel how much downforce the car is producing, they can use that feedback to operate the controls.

[Just_a_fan]

For what purpose?

If a driver can feel how much downforce the car is producing, they can use that feedback to operate the controls.

A driver just takes a corner at a given speed having figured out what that speed is during practice. That's what practice is for, after all.

Telling the driver he has e.g. 10,000N of downforce or 10,050N of downforce isn't going to be any use to him, especially if he has to process that information as an ever changing number displayed on the dash / read out to him in his ear piece.

He can already feel what the balance is through the steering and his seat. He feels how the tyres are degrading in the same way and modifies his speed / lines accordingly - hence they go slower as the tyres degrade.

Seems like a complication which wouldn't bring anything helpful.

[Greg Locock]

Either the fan car or one of the sliding skirt cars had a pressure gage so you knew if the system was working as you entered a corner.

[SmallSoldier]

For what purpose?

If a driver can feel how much downforce the car is producing, they can use that feedback to operate the controls.

They already feel how much downforce the car has based on how much grip they have

[Jolle]

as for a general feel, the steeringwheel, even when it's power steering, gives a good indication that something is pushing the tires firmly in the ground. You really have the feeling that the car is getting heavier and heavier.

[Just_a_fan]

Either the fan car or one of the sliding skirt cars had a pressure gage so you knew if the system was working as you entered a corner.

That makes sense. If a skirt failed up or the fan didn't chug properly, the car was going straight on at the next corner.

Modern cars don't have that issue, however.

[PlatinumZealot]

I wonder if anyone has tried using the driver cooling duct as a feedback mechanism for the driver to gauge how much downforce the car is generating.

I don't see the relation with one duct with the rest of the car. You can use multiple ducts branching into that one, almost like a pitot tube... and connect it to some sort of gauge.... see where I'm going?

The suspension travel sensors and are myriad pressure sensors are already there, so the engineers already know precisely how much downforce is being made. You could a numerical display on the screen to show the drivers but not like the drivers care too much for that fine grained detail. We often hear the engineers telling the drivers which parts have lost downforce and how much tenths of lap-time was lost.

[godlameroso]

I wonder if anyone has tried using the driver cooling duct as a feedback mechanism for the driver to gauge how much downforce the car is generating.

I don't see the relation with one duct with the rest of the car. You can use multiple ducts branching into that one, almost like a pitot tube... and connect it to some sort of gauge.... see where I'm going?

The suspension travel sensors and are myriad pressure sensors are already there, so the engineers already know precisely how much downforce is being made. You could a numerical display on the screen to show the drivers but not like the drivers care too much for that fine grained detail. We often hear the engineers telling the drivers which parts have lost downforce and how much tenths of lap-time was lost.

Having thought about it more, it could also be seen as an illegal driver aid. If the driver had a way to know how much downforce the car was producing, it wouldn't be too hard for the engineers to come up with a way to let him know if the downforce on the car is enough for the throttle position the driver is requesting.

A small LED inside the helmet could show a green color when the aero to throttle request matches perfectly. Show progressively redder color when the tire slip due to throttle demand exceeds the aero load, and blue when the aero load is greater than the tire slip.

Maybe something for the sim.

[godlameroso]

In low speed planes, the wing is twisted so the root stalls before the wing tip, when the pilot reaches the stall point, the separation at the root causes buffeting at the stabilizer. Maybe those little winglets on the McLaren do something similar? When the yaw angle is too great the separation on those winglets causes buffeting on the driver's helmet. At speed he can feel the wing inwash to judge the aero on the car?

[Just_a_fan]

By the time the flowfrom that vane reaches the driver's helmet, he'll already have an armful of oppo applied.

[godlameroso]

By the time the flowfrom that vane reaches the driver's helmet, he'll already have an armful of oppo applied.

Weren't you the one that told me the flow goes from the front to the back of the car in a fraction of a second? Average human reaction time is ~.7 these drivers train their reaction time so .4 would be best case scenario. From the winglet to the driver's helmet is ~.5m, at 35m/s the airflow from the vane would get there just around the driver's natural reaction time.

[DiogoBrand]

There's no way for a driver to feel downforce through the wind, and if there was it would be of no use.