2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[Big Tea]

Not really sure where to put this, but very interesting!!

https://interestingengineering.com/a-ne ... -emissions

I think even if it was proved that zero emission ICE type engines were viable, there would still be the 'threat' of using non renewables, this wagon is rolling and will not stop for practicalities like fixing the issue.

[Zynerji]

Not really sure where to put this, but very interesting!!

https://interestingengineering.com/a-ne ... -emissions

I think even if it was proved that zero emission ICE type engines were viable, there would still be the 'threat' of using non renewables, this wagon is rolling and will not stop for practicalities like fixing the issue.

They can be used as generators for EV drivetrains. Billions and Billions have gone into getting battery energy densities fractionally closer to gasoline. We should welcome the "close at hand" immediate emissions reductions like clean(er) burn technology until the battery breakthroughs are made.

[Stu]

Not really sure where to put this, but very interesting!!

https://interestingengineering.com/a-ne ... -emissions

I think even if it was proved that zero emission ICE type engines were viable, there would still be the 'threat' of using non renewables, this wagon is rolling and will not stop for practicalities like fixing the issue.

They can be used as generators for EV drivetrains. Billions and Billions have gone into getting battery energy densities fractionally closer to gasoline. We should welcome the "close at hand" immediate emissions reductions like clean(er) burn technology until the battery breakthroughs are made.

It certainly works as a generation/range extension method. Personally, I like the Cosworth ‘gas turbine’ solution.

[djos]

Not really sure where to put this, but very interesting!!

https://interestingengineering.com/a-ne ... -emissions

Too little, too late to save the ICE from extinction IMO.

[Stu]

Not really sure where to put this, but very interesting!!

https://interestingengineering.com/a-ne ... -emissions

Too little, too late to save the ICE from extinction IMO.

Probably. I just wonder why the big feature of this has not been explored previously (actually I recall seeing an article in Race Tech a couple of years ago that did something similar in more ‘normal’ architecture).

[mzso]

Cars are going electric and Formula E has that covered.

F1 is based on IC engines which may be obsolete in a few decades.

It has to decide whether it wants to be marketed as a racehorse - obsolete but glorious. Or a true E-sport.

Today it attempts both … and fails at both.

FE is a total snooze fest, F1 will prolly move to a fully electric powertrain once the technology catches up to F1 requirements.

Why would it catch up when F1 is the series that's supposed to pioneer new tech?

Besides, electric drive itself already has everything. They only need to figure out power storage. (basically only fuel cells are realistic.)

[mzso]

Not really sure where to put this, but very interesting!!

https://interestingengineering.com/a-ne ... -emissions

I think even if it was proved that zero emission ICE type engines were viable, there would still be the 'threat' of using non renewables, this wagon is rolling and will not stop for practicalities like fixing the issue.

They can be used as generators for EV drivetrains. Billions and Billions have gone into getting battery energy densities fractionally closer to gasoline. We should welcome the "close at hand" immediate emissions reductions like clean(er) burn technology until the battery breakthroughs are made.

Apart from the fact that this is a vague fantasy engine, what advantage could it have over fuel cells? (since it was purported as a "range extender") Not efficiency, certainly not mechanical simplicity. And no harmful emissions is rather doubtful, since its inherent to high combustion temperatures.

[djos]

Cars are going electric and Formula E has that covered.

F1 is based on IC engines which may be obsolete in a few decades.

It has to decide whether it wants to be marketed as a racehorse - obsolete but glorious. Or a true E-sport.

Today it attempts both … and fails at both.

FE is a total snooze fest, F1 will prolly move to a fully electric powertrain once the technology catches up to F1 requirements.

Why would it catch up when F1 is the series that's supposed to pioneer new tech?

Besides electric drive itself already has everything. They only need to figure out power storage. (basically only fuel cells are realistic.)

Current Energy storage systems are far too heavy to allow F1 to be fully electrified, that's just a fact - trying to move F1 to be fully electric too soon would kill the sport dead.

Fuel Cells and their required sub systems (inc a battery for use as an energy buffer) take up more space than batteries and deliver less power and range.

FCEV's only make sense for very large long range vehicles like Freight Trains, Semi's and maybe shipping at some point.

[Jolle]

The internal combustion engine has been in development for around 150 years. During that time it’s been refined by millions of engineers that spend thousands of hours working on it and exploring alternatives. It’s very unlikely that in it’s dying days suddenly a handful of engineers come up with a eureka engine. It’s either a funding scam or a desperate attempt to slow the transition to EV’s.

[Zynerji]

The Hatred that some here drip from their fingertips when discussing ICE technology on this forum make me wonder what they genuinely get from following F1 at all. It's like they cry themselves to sleep, whimpering while sucking their thumb. Angry that everyone else doesn't understand that the kids they are too beta to procreate will die when the world ends in 12ish years.

And here I am saying let's light the plugs and combust more dead dinosaurs! Who cares how much plant food we make? We are all going to end up vegetarians anyways!

[mzso]

Energy storage is far too heavy to allow F1 to be fully electrified, that's just a fact

No it's not, I just spelled out fuel cells int he comment you quoted.
They just need to develop one for F1, with some effort, it won't magically fall into the cars.

trying to move F1 to be fully electric too son would kill the sport dead.

You have no basis for that. Even if fuel cells weren't a thing already. In the sixties they outright went to F2 regulations for several years.

Fuel Cells and their required sub systems (inc a battery for use as an energy buffer) take up more space than batteries and deliver less power and range.

FCEV's only make sense for very large long range vehicles like Freight Trains, Semi's and maybe shipping at some point.

Not true. They could even pack problematic hydrogen pretty well into the Mirai. Also range was always their advantage. They can carry a lot more energy than batteries.
Also there's even more potential in SOFCs: http://web.archive.org/web/202006102329 ... W-TOPS-120

They definitely don't take up more space than whatever quantity batteries would be required to keep the power levels, which is like another car's worth.

[djos]

The Hatred that some here drip from their fingertips when discussing ICE technology on this forum make me wonder what they genuinely get from following F1 at all. It's like they cry themselves to sleep, whimpering while sucking their thumb. Angry that everyone else doesn't understand.

And here I am saying let's light the plugs and combust more dead dinosaurs!

I don't hate ICE tech, I love my little Turbo Terror - however, the writing is firmly on the wall for ICE vehicles. Most folk I know believe their next car will be a BEV.

PS, the whole dead dinosaur thing is silly, oil comes from decomposed forests.

[Zynerji]

Energy storage is far too heavy to allow F1 to be fully electrified, that's just a fact

No it's not, I just spelled out fuel cells int he comment you quoted.
They just need to develop one for F1, with some effort, it won't magically fall into the cars.

trying to move F1 to be fully electric too son would kill the sport dead.

You have no basis for that. Even if fuel cells weren't a thing already. In the sixties they outright went to F2 regulations for several years.

Fuel Cells and their required sub systems (inc a battery for use as an energy buffer) take up more space than batteries and deliver less power and range.

FCEV's only make sense for very large long range vehicles like Freight Trains, Semi's and maybe shipping at some point.

Not true. They could even pack problematic hydrogen pretty well into the Mirai. Also range was always their advantage. They can carry a lot more energy than batteries.
Also there's even more potential in SOFCs: http://web.archive.org/web/202006102329 ... W-TOPS-120

They definitely don't take up more space than whatever quantity batteries would be required to keep the power levels, which is like another car's worth.

One word about compressed hydrogen:

Hindenberg

[Zynerji]

The Hatred that some here drip from their fingertips when discussing ICE technology on this forum make me wonder what they genuinely get from following F1 at all. It's like they cry themselves to sleep, whimpering while sucking their thumb. Angry that everyone else doesn't understand.

And here I am saying let's light the plugs and combust more dead dinosaurs!

I don't hate ICE tech, I love my little Turbo Terror - however, the writing is firmly on the wall for ICE vehicles. Most folk I know believe their next car will be a BEV.

PS, the whole dead dinosaur thing is silly, oil comes from decomposed forests.

I wasn't talking about your well measured opinion.

[mzso]

The Hatred that some here drip from their fingertips when discussing ICE technology on this forum make me wonder what they genuinely get from following F1 at all. It's like they cry themselves to sleep, whimpering while sucking their thumb. Angry that everyone else doesn't understand that the kids they are too beta to procreate will die when the world ends in 12ish years.

Actually it look more like you and some others are showing their heads into the sand with unending fervor.
The world is going blatantly in one direction.

And here I am saying let's light the plugs and combust more dead dinosaurs! Who cares how much plant food we make? We are all going to end up vegetarians anyways!

I suspect you're also one of those who yell about F1 being "the pinnacle of motorsport technology" in other threads.