Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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Hoffman900 wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:32
godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:29
Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:24


So you think that the teams have absolutely no idea how their car will perform on track until the first test? Or do you just mean we onlookers in internet-land?
The teams have an idea because they're so involved in the design process, and simulation etc. They know what they have, but they have no idea how it will actually perform on track, certainly not against the others. We onlookers know substantially less, and have no data to make any inferences, at least until Bahrain.
And we're not going to have any real data that matters, other than lap times.
Says you.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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the EDGE wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:28
Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:24
godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:18


Technically new rules, we are all amateurs until the cars run on track and we see what actually works and what doesn't. You can't just feed data to your AI, garbage in, garbage out. You need some real world data to start the optimization process.
So you think that the teams have absolutely no idea how their car will perform on track until the first test? Or do you just mean we onlookers in internet-land?
Many a teams car has not behaved as expected once on track, and they had previous data to go by. I certainly expect some nasty surprises in a few weeks for at least 1 team, if not more, and that could be any team quite frankly
I think sometimes a team thinks - this performance projection is great, we're going to right up there - and then gets on track and finds that others have found much better performance. At that point "correlation" is a great excuse rather than "we messed up and thought we'd done a great job when we hadn't".

I seem to remember back when the 2009 regs came in, McLaren were nowhere. They had a front wing with no outwash, etc., etc.. It was suggested by some in the know, that they hadn't realised what the inwash front wing was doing for them - I find it hard to believe but stranger things have happened - so they didn't consider outwash until they saw others using it. Much was made about the double diffuser, but it was the outwash front wing that really helped Brawn in early 2009. Even Red Bull had very little outwash in their front wing. Compare the RB5 midseason to the BGP01 in testing
Image

Image

The RedBull's front wing is hardly working the endplate at all. The Brawn's was all about the endplate. Brawn himself even said at the time "they're all looking at the wrong end of the car" when the double diffuser was being challenged.

Yes, others put on the double diffuser and found performance, but the front wing was what really gave Brawn the early season head start.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:39
Hoffman900 wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:32
godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:29


The teams have an idea because they're so involved in the design process, and simulation etc. They know what they have, but they have no idea how it will actually perform on track, certainly not against the others. We onlookers know substantially less, and have no data to make any inferences, at least until Bahrain.
And we're not going to have any real data that matters, other than lap times.
Says you.
What data will you have? Downforce figures? Drag figures?
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:29
Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:24
godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:18


Technically new rules, we are all amateurs until the cars run on track and we see what actually works and what doesn't. You can't just feed data to your AI, garbage in, garbage out. You need some real world data to start the optimization process.
So you think that the teams have absolutely no idea how their car will perform on track until the first test? Or do you just mean we onlookers in internet-land?
The teams have an idea because they're so involved in the design process, and simulation etc. They know what they have, but they have no idea how it will actually perform on track, certainly not against the others. We onlookers know substantially less, and have no data to make any inferences, at least until Bahrain.
That's the key bit - how it will compare. They know what their design will do, more or less, but they don't know if others have done even better.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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godlameroso
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:42
godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:39
Hoffman900 wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:32


And we're not going to have any real data that matters, other than lap times.
Says you.
What data will you have? Downforce figures? Drag figures?
Not directly.
Saishū kōnā

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:45
Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:42
godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:39


Says you.
What data will you have? Downforce figures? Drag figures?
Not directly.
:lol: :roll:

Sorry, godlameroso, but you haven't posted anything to give an inclination that you have more than half an idea. Don't you have an LMP1 car to sample at Sebring or something?

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/simulati ... vid-penner has done far more advanced work than any data you have and it's still wrong, he tells you why.

jacques96
jacques96
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Joined: 12 Mar 2021, 02:18

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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RB 18 leaked?
https://ibb.co/JzZ00R0

looks like the fia model to me
Last edited by jacques96 on 09 Feb 2022, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.

AbbaleRacing77
AbbaleRacing77
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Joined: 23 Mar 2010, 23:05

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:40
the EDGE wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:28
Just_a_fan wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:24


So you think that the teams have absolutely no idea how their car will perform on track until the first test? Or do you just mean we onlookers in internet-land?
Many a teams car has not behaved as expected once on track, and they had previous data to go by. I certainly expect some nasty surprises in a few weeks for at least 1 team, if not more, and that could be any team quite frankly
I think sometimes a team thinks - this performance projection is great, we're going to right up there - and then gets on track and finds that others have found much better performance. At that point "correlation" is a great excuse rather than "we messed up and thought we'd done a great job when we hadn't".

I seem to remember back when the 2009 regs came in, McLaren were nowhere. They had a front wing with no outwash, etc., etc.. It was suggested by some in the know, that they hadn't realised what the inwash front wing was doing for them - I find it hard to believe but stranger things have happened - so they didn't consider outwash until they saw others using it. Much was made about the double diffuser, but it was the outwash front wing that really helped Brawn in early 2009. Even Red Bull had very little outwash in their front wing. Compare the RB5 midseason to the BGP01 in testing
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... Turkey.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... esting.jpg

The RedBull's front wing is hardly working the endplate at all. The Brawn's was all about the endplate. Brawn himself even said at the time "they're all looking at the wrong end of the car" when the double diffuser was being challenged.

Yes, others put on the double diffuser and found performance, but the front wing was what really gave Brawn the early season head start.
Great analysis. I think the RB had the best fundamentals with the high nose but the Brawn hit the ground running with a very refined car.

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jumpingfish
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Location: Ru

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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Some leaks

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jjn9128
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Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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The first of the FOM model livery reveals we expected from all teams but were pleasantly surprised by Haas not showing
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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It's both not what I was expecting (ie: it's not close to what the real car will be) and what I was expecting for a livery showoff.

I expect the FOM car or very close to it for all teams.
Last edited by Hoffman900 on 09 Feb 2022, 18:00, edited 3 times in total.

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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Shame Honda is nowhere on the car :cry:
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MtthsMlw
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Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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So what was the point of this launch?

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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MtthsMlw wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 18:00
So what was the point of this launch?
Placating sponsors and rabid fans. Social media buzz = sponsor attention = money

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Stu
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Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Red Bull RB18 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
09 Feb 2022, 17:59
Shame Honda is nowhere on the car :cry:
Isn’t that an HRC logo near the rear suspension?
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.