2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[siskue2005]

They did not buy the IP

If not then it is indeed bad that there is no Honda representation

The HRC at the back of the engine cover? Honda officially pulled out of F1. There shouldn't be a Honda logo on the Red Bull at all let alone the small HRC one

Ah ok, then why are they supplying engine for free... this is confusing

[Sieper]

Mateschitz will pick up the no doubt big bill and likely that is why we can be very happy with the Oracle sponsoring.

[Sieper]

Care to explain? Least evolved people?

ooh you know, 'what a mongol' debacle .. 'not my problem' attitude from Max. No accountability, never owns anything (like some of his fans) willing to deny being aggressive, but accuse others of being aggressive.

Christian Horner's behaviour in general last season, Mark is a classic.

just a toxic cesspool running an otherwise very talented and quality team.

CH and Marko just smell of harmful narcissism. Marko always uses his words to attack people, or to lie at times. Which he apologised for last season when RBR tried to lie. All the hocus-pocus and bs they would say in their interviews..

the entitled and toxic nature of the characters running that team, are the last types I would think of that would care about anything other than their own egos and narcissism. I wouldn't put good money on them thinking about what Honda did and deserve, especially given they didn't win the constructors as Honda deserved, but powered them to their only championship in the hybrid era, which was pivotal in keeping their golden boy.

Your entirely duplicitous nature exposed fully with this post, as I've been saying since your first few posts on this forum a month or two ago.

Aero, it is really hard to stomach your posts. It is almost? plain bashing that is how it reads. Do you think that many of us redbull fans feel much different about Toto? Do you see me posting that every few days in the Mercedes team thread? I feel that is not my place.

[AeroDynamic]

ooh you know, 'what a mongol' debacle .. 'not my problem' attitude from Max. No accountability, never owns anything (like some of his fans) willing to deny being aggressive, but accuse others of being aggressive.

Christian Horner's behaviour in general last season, Mark is a classic.

just a toxic cesspool running an otherwise very talented and quality team.

CH and Marko just smell of harmful narcissism. Marko always uses his words to attack people, or to lie at times. Which he apologised for last season when RBR tried to lie. All the hocus-pocus and bs they would say in their interviews..

the entitled and toxic nature of the characters running that team, are the last types I would think of that would care about anything other than their own egos and narcissism. I wouldn't put good money on them thinking about what Honda did and deserve, especially given they didn't win the constructors as Honda deserved, but powered them to their only championship in the hybrid era, which was pivotal in keeping their golden boy.

Your entirely duplicitous nature exposed fully with this post, as I've been saying since your first few posts on this forum a month or two ago.

Aero, it is really hard to stomach your posts. It is almost? plain bashing that is how it reads. Do you think that many of us redbull fans feel much different about Toto? Do you see me posting that every few days in the Mercedes team thread? I feel that is not my place.

Sieper, you are a good guy. I respect you. You know what, I’ll be more mindful of how candid my criticism can be at times around this topic, out of respect for you.

[diffuser]

No Honda branding anywhere. Just that small HRC logo where no one can see it. What a bullshit after all Honda did. Again the ego are driving them... So disapointed tbh, no reason to back that team anymore

I think that means RBR are paying 5 or so millions for those PUs this year and for subsequent years, just like any other team is.

Would love to see an official statement about this. If not, I don't believe it

Remember Renault when they pulled the name off, sold the rights to TAG and kept the Renault PU... but yeah, I'm making an assumption.

[Csmith1980]

Care to explain? Least evolved people?

ooh you know, 'what a mongol' debacle .. 'not my problem' attitude from Max. No accountability, never owns anything (like some of his fans) willing to deny being aggressive, but accuse others of being aggressive.

Christian Horner's behaviour in general last season, Mark is a classic.

just a toxic cesspool running an otherwise very talented and quality team.

CH and Marko just smell of harmful narcissism. Marko always uses his words to attack people, or to lie at times. Which he apologised for last season when RBR tried to lie. All the hocus-pocus and bs they would say in their interviews..

the entitled and toxic nature of the characters running that team, are the last types I would think of that would care about anything other than their own egos and narcissism. I wouldn't put good money on them thinking about what Honda did and deserve, especially given they didn't win the constructors as Honda deserved, but powered them to their only championship in the hybrid era, which was pivotal in keeping their golden boy.

once even accusing FIA that he is being punished due to the color of his skin - for which he had to apologise.

Why are you deliberately taking that comment out of context?

[AeroDynamic]

any RBR fans wanted a high quality oracle logo for illustrative purposes? I have this for you! it was easy enough to do.
thread logo updated*

[JordanMugen]

No Honda branding anywhere. Just that small HRC logo where no one can see it. What a bullshit after all Honda did. Again the ego are driving them... So disapointed tbh, no reason to back that team anymore

I think you are being unreasonable Marti, Honda didn't pay for the large logos last year, Red Bull & Alpha Tauri put them on out of goodwill. AFAIK, Honda just supplied the free power units as per every year before since 2015 (they didn't get any larger logos on the McLaren in exchange for paying half of Alonso's salary either!).

As a technical partner, the HRC logo is on the car like other Red Bull technical partners. It was probably quite some time ago that the uniforms and livery were signed off -- Red Bull signing Oracle as a sponsor on the basis of moving the Red Bull logo to where the Honda/Tag Huer logo used to be, and putting Red Bull Powertrains on the FIA entry forms as the engine name. There is still space on the Red Bull for Honda to return as a sponsor and it is entirely plausible that Honda could return as a sponsor and power unit naming sponsor for 2023.

Red Bull are still likely to run a red & white livery at Suzuka this year too:

"The engine will be branded as a Red Bull engine," Horner confirmed, but said that Honda's presence is likely to be acknowledged. "We still have an affiliation of branding which will be announced later in the season. They won't be totally invisible."

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-hor ... da-in-2022

So does the lack of Honda branding mean that they're buying "$$$" the PUs from Honda ?

Yes, Red Bull are likely paying for all the expenses from 2022 onwards (additionally all the staff from Honda F1 Milton Keynes moving on to the Red Bull Powertrains payroll), that was probably the arrangement AFAIK. The question is whether Honda want to arrange a sponsorship deal (signage in exchange for reduced fees I guess) and to what extent. As I said, Honda didn't actually pay to be the title sponsor of Red Bull Racing in 2021 AFAIK, Red Bull did that as part of goodwill to make sure this ongoing supply deal (despite Honda withdrawing from F1) could work going forward.

Compared to R&D expenses, naming rights sponsorship is not all that expensive yet it's not something Honda took up with McLaren, for example, despite reportedly contributing to McLaren beyond supplying free power units.

Yes, if the final livery on Bahrein continues to show that HRC logo no one sees and no one knows wtf is. They deserve to lose only because of it's own egocentry.

It was announced all along that they would be Red Bull' branded. Honda pulled out of F1, they didn't want their brand on it. The HRC logo shows that Honda is involved, everyone knows HRC is Honda Racing in bikes and now it is replacing the Honda Racing F1 name too. Everyone knows that the power unit is a Honda, does it matter what it says on the entry list or sponsor roster?

I guess Williams going to "Mechachrome" is the most similar example:


There's no Renault logo anywhere, despite all Williams success with works Renault engines.

A converse example is that Honda didn't make sure McLaren could have a supply from Mugen and still have Honda support, instead McLaren went to Ford. I don't know whether Dennis necessarily sought out a Mugen supply or not though, or how competitive Mugen V10s were compared to Ford customer-spec V8s.

P.S And I imagine Honda continues to supply free PU to them??

I wouldn't have thought so.

Sad to see a brand like Honda acting like this after winning a Championship

You know they are Japanese. They would lose face if the new CEO is seen to be immediately reversing the previous CEO's decision of withdrawing from F1 which was widely publicised. I'd say it is a still possibly that the Honda name reappears with Red Bull in 2023.

[Big Tea]

And there is the question of if Honda themselves want to be associated with F1.
They may not feel it fits the image they try to project if they are involved in what some see as pushing old technology at the expense of zero emission ( a whole new subject, so lets not go there in this thread)

Honda can gain knowledge from it, and still have the kudos where it counts of being a F1 engine builder, so, depending on how they feel they want to be perceived, and to who, it could well be the best of both worlds.

Those that are interested already know, those that would object in a knee jerk 'on principle' response, do not have the toe hold. (Not us gov, we are out of here as quick as we can, Nasty smelly ICE, cant drop RBR in the dung though can we, so have to look after them)

[adrianjordan]

Am I the only one who thinks the large yellow area so far back up the nose almost looks like a beak??

[Marti_EF3]

No Honda branding anywhere. Just that small HRC logo where no one can see it. What a bullshit after all Honda did. Again the ego are driving them... So disapointed tbh, no reason to back that team anymore

Red bull didn't have any title sponsor in 2021, so they just ran Honda logos on their rear wing entirely for free. They didn't have to do it, but did it anyway out of respect for Honda. But yeah, screw them in every way imaginable just because you, some random dude on the nets with zero relevant information, believe they must run their logo over their entire car and honda will now take major offence due to this.
Lets not forget honda inspired livery in turkey last year, solely as a thank you gesture to honda. And again with the Acura branding in usa. And then end of season video where again they went out of their way in praising honda and wihsing they never left. Amount of homage payed to honda by red bull last year was ridicioulus, and to now call them egoistic is just outright dumb and ignorant. These same thoughts go to every poster in this thread who came here to smear this team just because they didn't like launch event and lack of honda branding.
Edit. And I just remembered how many times honda personnel where on the podium together with max and checo (from memory i know at least in austria and usa). Now lets see how many times mercedes engine guys will accompany lando or ricci up there.

Same as Honda giving PU for free for 2 teams. And I'm not talking about the past, but now.

It's just my.opinion, and you need to show at least respect to me, even if you don't like it. Random guy

[AtlasZX]

No Honda branding anywhere. Just that small HRC logo where no one can see it. What a bullshit after all Honda did. Again the ego are driving them... So disapointed tbh, no reason to back that team anymore

In 2020, Honda made clear that they considered F1 a sport not compatible with their "100% carbon free by 2030 goal"
So, according to them, they dont want their logos on a dirty, pollutig, non-carbon free car.

"we will funnel our strengths into achieving innovations in the new field of creating carbon-free power units and energy and realizing carbon neutrality. This will be a challenge as tough and difficult as competing in F1"

https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2020 ... 2aeng.html

[proteus]

once even accusing FIA that he is being punished due to the color of his skin - for which he had to apologise.

Why are you deliberately taking that comment out of context?

That's why I didn't even bother. It's like picking a debate with someone about the earth being round or flat. You just know you are wasting time.

Taking the high ground when running out of proper arguments. The comment was out of line.

[Curbstone]

No Honda branding anywhere. Just that small HRC logo where no one can see it. What a bullshit after all Honda did. Again the ego are driving them... So disapointed tbh, no reason to back that team anymore

Red bull didn't have any title sponsor in 2021, so they just ran Honda logos on their rear wing entirely for free. They didn't have to do it, but did it anyway out of respect for Honda. But yeah, screw them in every way imaginable just because you, some random dude on the nets with zero relevant information, believe they must run their logo over their entire car and honda will now take major offence due to this.
Lets not forget honda inspired livery in turkey last year, solely as a thank you gesture to honda. And again with the Acura branding in usa. And then end of season video where again they went out of their way in praising honda and wihsing they never left. Amount of homage payed to honda by red bull last year was ridicioulus, and to now call them egoistic is just outright dumb and ignorant. These same thoughts go to every poster in this thread who came here to smear this team just because they didn't like launch event and lack of honda branding.
Edit. And I just remembered how many times honda personnel where on the podium together with max and checo (from memory i know at least in austria and usa). Now lets see how many times mercedes engine guys will accompany lando or ricci up there.

Same as Honda giving PU for free for 2 teams. And I'm not talking about the past, but now.

It's just my.opinion, and you need to show at least respect to me, even if you don't like it. Random guy

It's hard to respect a random dude who is basing a team for not having a logo on the car without having a clue why the logo would be absent.
Explanations and possible reasons has been given several time now, but you still keep screaming about it, at this point that makes as much sense as screaming at the clouds.

[proteus]

ooh you know, 'what a mongol' debacle .. 'not my problem' attitude from Max. No accountability, never owns anything (like some of his fans) willing to deny being aggressive, but accuse others of being aggressive.

Christian Horner's behaviour in general last season, Mark is a classic.

just a toxic cesspool running an otherwise very talented and quality team.

CH and Marko just smell of harmful narcissism. Marko always uses his words to attack people, or to lie at times. Which he apologised for last season when RBR tried to lie. All the hocus-pocus and bs they would say in their interviews..

the entitled and toxic nature of the characters running that team, are the last types I would think of that would care about anything other than their own egos and narcissism. I wouldn't put good money on them thinking about what Honda did and deserve, especially given they didn't win the constructors as Honda deserved, but powered them to their only championship in the hybrid era, which was pivotal in keeping their golden boy.

once even accusing FIA that he is being punished due to the color of his skin - for which he had to apologise.

Why are you deliberately taking that comment out of context?

How have i done it? Especially since you did exactly what you are accusing me for.