Show & Tell

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Postmoe
15
Joined: 23 Mar 2012, 16:57

Re: Show & Tell

Post

Zynerji wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 20:43
nzjrs wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 20:29
Zynerji wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 20:19


The company that I advised on this was part of a general restructure contract, this was not the primary item. Actually, looking back, it turned out to be the easiest part because everyone was happy to ditch the old, broken, hop-scotch across multiple softwares approach that gutted their productivity. Recommending BC as a future-proof software platform was not paid for separately.

I'd love a deeper discussion as to why F1 couldn't do similar, as I am not an expert in BC by any means. I only have the data from meeting with the in-house devs that were hired for the project. I did ask a few questions, as F1 seemed a similar candidate, and it all seemed plausible. I mean, they have POS systems checking out customers that are also crunching the chemical/physics simulations for the R&D department, so fans running CFD nodes seemed reasonable.
What you pitched sounds like a sensible design.

However the basic impedance mismatch is that a company (or certain verticals) should be internally collaborative and F1 is internally competitive so the standardization incentives are not aligned. There is no way to have the F1 teams all use the same software for everything, and any deviation from this makes it an off chain problem subject to all my complaints. You can't have a system that requires some central party to out-engineer the competitive industry of F1 in order to make a tool the competitive industry of F1 must then use.

I'm sure you could architect something out that just did BC stuff for content, but I think that's not a better improvement than the show and tell stuff. In fact, a cynic would say they could just literally monetise some show and tell reveal direct to NFT and I'm sure they have lined up some partner to make that lazy play later this year.
I think FIA has enough money to work with industry heavyweights (Dassault, NX, OpenFOAM) for bespoke variants of their software for this exercise.

But you are correct. Those that compete on a level with an intrinsic cheating mentality will always want to keep secrets.

Now we get to the TRUE power of a self- balancing system in such an environment. An even playing field where a true meritocracy can stand and be admired by millions of people with zero drama.

Sounds like my kind of sport, tbh...😏

And you CAN make them all use the same software. It can be added to the Concorde, but better just to just have the FOM mandate it like the tyre supplier.

If anyone quits over it, too bad. The racing will be fine without them!
That is much more difficult than what you imply. We are talking big conglomerates that have quite complex deals with vendors. There's also the transitions, which are costly.

So an editor pays a lot to have the deal with the FIA and x amount of teams need to move from the other editors?
That's crazy, two full seasons lost.

Then, last but not least, you have the licensing issues.

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Show & Tell

Post

Postmoe wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 21:01
Zynerji wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 20:43
nzjrs wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 20:29


What you pitched sounds like a sensible design.

However the basic impedance mismatch is that a company (or certain verticals) should be internally collaborative and F1 is internally competitive so the standardization incentives are not aligned. There is no way to have the F1 teams all use the same software for everything, and any deviation from this makes it an off chain problem subject to all my complaints. You can't have a system that requires some central party to out-engineer the competitive industry of F1 in order to make a tool the competitive industry of F1 must then use.

I'm sure you could architect something out that just did BC stuff for content, but I think that's not a better improvement than the show and tell stuff. In fact, a cynic would say they could just literally monetise some show and tell reveal direct to NFT and I'm sure they have lined up some partner to make that lazy play later this year.
I think FIA has enough money to work with industry heavyweights (Dassault, NX, OpenFOAM) for bespoke variants of their software for this exercise.

But you are correct. Those that compete on a level with an intrinsic cheating mentality will always want to keep secrets.

Now we get to the TRUE power of a self- balancing system in such an environment. An even playing field where a true meritocracy can stand and be admired by millions of people with zero drama.

Sounds like my kind of sport, tbh...😏

And you CAN make them all use the same software. It can be added to the Concorde, but better just to just have the FOM mandate it like the tyre supplier.

If anyone quits over it, too bad. The racing will be fine without them!
That is much more difficult than what you imply. We are talking big conglomerates that have quite complex deals with vendors. There's also the transitions, which are costly.

So an editor pays a lot to have the deal with the FIA and x amount of teams need to move from the other editors?
That's crazy, two full seasons lost.

Then, last but not least, you have the licensing issues.
I guess if the teams have an issue with using an FIA standardized software, they can just not race?

I mean, if they didn't build a car to 2022 rules, they couldn't race either. I don't really see the problem from the 30000ft perspective.

User avatar
nzjrs
60
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 11:21
Location: Redacted

Re: Show & Tell

Post

I'd bet a lot of value in the F1 spinoff companies (McLaren Applied, Williams Advanced Engineering, etc etc) are the symbiosis between the talent in those operations and their competence using their developed or industry standard software tooling. If you want to make them use some standardized bollocks then you risk ripping a lot of the synergy out of the race team and the engineering department.

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Show & Tell

Post

nzjrs wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 23:17
I'd bet a lot of value in the F1 spinoff companies (McLaren Applied, Williams Advanced Engineering, etc etc) are the symbiosis between the talent in those operations and their competence using their developed or industry standard software tooling. If you want to make them use some standardized bollocks then you risk ripping a lot of the synergy out of the race team and the engineering department.
No care given. Survival of the fittest.

Business models change all the time (I do it every single day). Adapt or die, and let another competitor take their place.

I sacrifice Sacred Cows on the daily.

User avatar
nzjrs
60
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 11:21
Location: Redacted

Re: Show & Tell

Post

Zynerji wrote: ↑
22 Feb 2022, 01:31
nzjrs wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 23:17
I'd bet a lot of value in the F1 spinoff companies (McLaren Applied, Williams Advanced Engineering, etc etc) are the symbiosis between the talent in those operations and their competence using their developed or industry standard software tooling. If you want to make them use some standardized bollocks then you risk ripping a lot of the synergy out of the race team and the engineering department.
No care given. Survival of the fittest.

Business models change all the time (I do it every single day). Adapt or die, and let another competitor take their place.

I sacrifice Sacred Cows on the daily.
This is so weird. You argue like a typical capitalism free market USA bro and yet want an innovation stifling software by committee approach for the team. I say that will affect the teams and you are all for their death. Have you seen the turnaround on F1 teams? You think this is an efficient market? It's not sacred cows it's non systems thinking. Just take the L on the incoherence of your plan.

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Show & Tell

Post

nzjrs wrote: ↑
22 Feb 2022, 01:49
Zynerji wrote: ↑
22 Feb 2022, 01:31
nzjrs wrote: ↑
21 Feb 2022, 23:17
I'd bet a lot of value in the F1 spinoff companies (McLaren Applied, Williams Advanced Engineering, etc etc) are the symbiosis between the talent in those operations and their competence using their developed or industry standard software tooling. If you want to make them use some standardized bollocks then you risk ripping a lot of the synergy out of the race team and the engineering department.
No care given. Survival of the fittest.

Business models change all the time (I do it every single day). Adapt or die, and let another competitor take their place.

I sacrifice Sacred Cows on the daily.
This is so weird. You argue like a typical capitalism free market USA bro and yet want an innovation stifling software by committee approach for the team. I say that will affect the teams and you are all for their death. Have you seen the turnaround on F1 teams? You think this is an efficient market? It's not sacred cows it's non systems thinking. Just take the L on the incoherence of your plan.
Yeah. I've heard that before. Yet I've left a trail of multi-millions in increased profitability in my wake.

I legitimately do not have much credence for arguing my livelihood on the internet.

Most problems in companies can be solved with fresh eyes with alternative experiences.

If you are saying that F1 teams are unable to adapt to a new software rubric, I would say that you simply are protecting your own job. πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

User avatar
nzjrs
60
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 11:21
Location: Redacted

Re: Show & Tell

Post

Zynerji wrote: ↑
22 Feb 2022, 02:10
Yeah. I've heard that before. Yet I've left a trail of multi-millions in increased profitability in my wake.

I legitimately do not have much credence for arguing my livelihood on the internet.

Most problems in companies can be solved with fresh eyes with alternative experiences.

If you are saying that F1 teams are unable to adapt to a new software rubric, I would say that you simply are protecting your own job. πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ
Yes, this is KPMG-speak. Anyway, been there, got the hat. I'm doing AI and BC, I'll be fine ;-)

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Show & Tell

Post

nzjrs wrote: ↑
22 Feb 2022, 13:35
Zynerji wrote: ↑
22 Feb 2022, 02:10
Yeah. I've heard that before. Yet I've left a trail of multi-millions in increased profitability in my wake.

I legitimately do not have much credence for arguing my livelihood on the internet.

Most problems in companies can be solved with fresh eyes with alternative experiences.

If you are saying that F1 teams are unable to adapt to a new software rubric, I would say that you simply are protecting your own job. πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ
Yes, this is KPMG-speak. Anyway, been there, got the hat. I'm doing AI and BC, I'll be fine ;-)
Happy for you!

Let's see how the Show and Tell works out in 2022!

User avatar
adrianjordan
24
Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: Show & Tell

Post

WTF was the last couple of pages about?? Jeez, how on earth would that make it more accessible to the average fan??
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! πŸ€¦πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Show & Tell

Post

adrianjordan wrote: ↑
23 Feb 2022, 01:53
WTF was the last couple of pages about?? Jeez, how on earth would that make it more accessible to the average fan??
Because there would be thousands of FACTUAL articles instead of the never ending speculative ones that the current system will produce.

It's ok tho. Time will prove my point on this.

User avatar
adrianjordan
24
Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: Show & Tell

Post

How? As if F1 Journalists are going to spend time sifting through endless streams of data when they could just continue doing exactly what they do now.

You do realise that the fans interested in the technical minutiae make up maybe 10% (if that) of the F1 fan base don't you?
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! πŸ€¦πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Show & Tell

Post

adrianjordan wrote: ↑
23 Feb 2022, 05:27
How? As if F1 Journalists are going to spend time sifting through endless streams of data when they could just continue doing exactly what they do now.

You do realise that the fans interested in the technical minutiae make up maybe 10% (if that) of the F1 fan base don't you?
Can you quote that source, or are you speaking purely from a perspective of Assumption Privilege?

More real data= more digestive media publishes articles, more people become exposed, more exposed become interested, fanbase increases, and then revenue increases.

I'm sure that the Show and Tell comes from fan feedback to the FOM. There is a desire for the nitty gritty details. Don't assume that 90% of the fans don't care.

Unfortunately, the outcome of this is not only typical of F1, but inevitable. It will be another case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. #-o

User avatar
nzjrs
60
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 11:21
Location: Redacted

Re: Show & Tell

Post

Zynerji wrote: ↑
23 Feb 2022, 02:12
It's ok tho. Time will prove my point on this.
Come on Mr. Deloitte. We paid for specific actionable advice! $2500/day! Don't make me hire Accenture instead!

If you make some specific statements we can revisit them in a couple of years. Something between what you pitched 'complete on-chain verifiable design and data provenance' and 'use blockchain'

User avatar
Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Show & Tell

Post

nzjrs wrote: ↑
23 Feb 2022, 14:55
Zynerji wrote: ↑
23 Feb 2022, 02:12
It's ok tho. Time will prove my point on this.
Come on Mr. Deloitte. We paid for specific actionable advice! $2500/day! Don't make me hire Accenture instead!

If you make some specific statements we can revisit them in a couple of years. Something between what you pitched 'complete on-chain verifiable design and data provenance' and 'use blockchain'
You are missing the forest for the trees, I'm afraid. I won't be back to this thread.

Enjoy!

Rikhart
Rikhart
19
Joined: 10 Feb 2009, 20:21

Re: Show & Tell

Post

This sport is turning into a clown show, sadly. This is illogical and only the most ignorant about F1 will think that teams will actually say anything about upgrades in the car.