Mercedes W13

[pierrre]

Looks mean

the only one currently running inward pointing vortex generators on the wing adjusters. this means they want to generate more vortex

[F1Krof]

Looks mean

the only one currently running inward pointing vortex generators on the wing adjusters. this means they want to generate more vortex

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/d ... 299058.JPG

It certainly is unique and strange in so many ways, especially when comparing to other cars so far. Something feels uncanny, I had the same feeling in 2016 when they presented their car. I just hope the result is the same.

[dans79]

It certainly is unique and strange in so many ways, especially when comparing to other cars so far. Something feels uncanny, I had the same feeling in 2016 when they presented their car. I just hope the result is the same.

I think almost everything will depend on how well the floor works!

[ringo]

Hello everyone, after doing the F1-75 sidepods simulation, I also did the W13 as well. To keep everything in the same place, I decided to post it in the same thread here --> viewtopic.php?p=1035377#p1035377

Just a shor summary for those who might not want to read trough all of it, these sidepods are super tiny and super low drag but the rear tyre suffered a lot in this simulation and overall the car generated more downforce compared to the other sidepod design, but was also less aerodinamically efficient.

https://i.ibb.co/R78VY64/comp1-iso-details.jpg

Hi. What do you mean by the rear tyre suffered a lot?

[timoth]

Hello everyone, after doing the F1-75 sidepods simulation, I also did the W13 as well. To keep everything in the same place, I decided to post it in the same thread here --> viewtopic.php?p=1035377#p1035377

Just a shor summary for those who might not want to read trough all of it, these sidepods are super tiny and super low drag but the rear tyre suffered a lot in this simulation and overall the car generated more downforce compared to the other sidepod design, but was also less aerodinamically efficient.

https://i.ibb.co/R78VY64/comp1-iso-details.jpg

Hi. What do you mean by the rear tyre suffered a lot?

As he explained it in the mentioned post, he means rear tires drag. Ferrari's vertical flat sidepods creates a low pressure area in front of the rear tires which reduces the rear tires drag . Kyle.engineers also explained this in his youtube video about f1-75.
It seems so counterintuitive that these massive sidepods produce less drag. But when you consider that tires were responsible for about 40% of the total drag of the car until last year and with the new cars, not only the diameter of the tires increased, but also the bodywork of the new cars produce less drag, so you expect the tires be responsible for more than 40% of the drag. So focusing to reduce the drag created by tires may not be a bad choice actually.

[dans79]

Hello everyone, after doing the F1-75 sidepods simulation, I also did the W13 as well. To keep everything in the same place, I decided to post it in the same thread here --> viewtopic.php?p=1035377#p1035377

Just a shor summary for those who might not want to read trough all of it, these sidepods are super tiny and super low drag but the rear tyre suffered a lot in this simulation and overall the car generated more downforce compared to the other sidepod design, but was also less aerodinamically efficient.

https://i.ibb.co/R78VY64/comp1-iso-details.jpg

Hi. What do you mean by the rear tyre suffered a lot?

As he explained it in the mentioned post, he means rear tires drag. Ferrari's vertical flat sidepods creates a low pressure area in front of the rear tires which reduces the rear tires drag . Kyle.engineers also explained this in his youtube video about f1-75.
It seems so counterintuitive that these massive sidepods produce less drags. But when you consider that tires were responsible for about 40% of the total drag of the car until last year and with the new cars, not only the diameter of the tires increased, but also the bodywork of the new cars produce less drag, so you expect the tires be responsible for more than 40% of the drag. So focusing to reduce the drag created by tires may not be a bad choice actually.

The only thing we must keep in mind as has been mentioned before, is that we don't have a complete view of the packages as a whole.

[timoth]

Hi. What do you mean by the rear tyre suffered a lot?

As he explained it in the mentioned post, he means rear tires drag. Ferrari's vertical flat sidepods creates a low pressure area in front of the rear tires which reduces the rear tires drag . Kyle.engineers also explained this in his youtube video about f1-75.
It seems so counterintuitive that these massive sidepods produce less drags. But when you consider that tires were responsible for about 40% of the total drag of the car until last year and with the new cars, not only the diameter of the tires increased, but also the bodywork of the new cars produce less drag, so you expect the tires be responsible for more than 40% of the drag. So focusing to reduce the drag created by tires may not be a bad choice actually.

The only thing we must keep in mind as has been mentioned before, is that we don't have a complete view of the packages as a whole.

Absolutely, maybe Mercedes uses other tricks to reduce rear tire drags, maybe they produce much more downforce, but we don't know and as vanja himself said, the models are basic and are just used to compare different concepts.

[ringo]

Hello everyone, after doing the F1-75 sidepods simulation, I also did the W13 as well. To keep everything in the same place, I decided to post it in the same thread here --> viewtopic.php?p=1035377#p1035377

Just a shor summary for those who might not want to read trough all of it, these sidepods are super tiny and super low drag but the rear tyre suffered a lot in this simulation and overall the car generated more downforce compared to the other sidepod design, but was also less aerodinamically efficient.

https://i.ibb.co/R78VY64/comp1-iso-details.jpg

Hi. What do you mean by the rear tyre suffered a lot?

As he explained it in the mentioned post, he means rear tires drag. Ferrari's vertical flat sidepods creates a low pressure area in front of the rear tires which reduces the rear tires drag . Kyle.engineers also explained this in his youtube video about f1-75.
It seems so counterintuitive that these massive sidepods produce less drag. But when you consider that tires were responsible for about 40% of the total drag of the car until last year and with the new cars, not only the diameter of the tires increased, but also the bodywork of the new cars produce less drag, so you expect the tires be responsible for more than 40% of the drag. So focusing to reduce the drag created by tires may not be a bad choice actually.

We have to be careful how we interpret CFD images. Yes there is more pressure in front of the rear tyre. But the drag in front of the tyre is not the priority of the side pod designs.
The bright red patch in front of the tyre can be a very good sign. It can mean clean high energy air has navigated its way past the wake of the front wheel. I was doing home made CFDs years ago on the forum but because of less free time i kinda stopped. The conclusion does not have to be wrong, but to be sure of what is being said what should be displayed is the flow vectors.
That high pressure area in front the rear wheels has been used by the teams before. You could see in the past little flicks and holes that use this air and feed into the diffuser.

I may take the discussion to CFD chat.

[Mchamilton]

Looks mean

the only one currently running inward pointing vortex generators on the wing adjusters. this means they want to generate more vortex

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/d ... 299058.JPG

Why does it?
Surely it just means that is the genral direction of flow in that region.

[Just_a_fan]

As he explained it in the mentioned post, he means rear tires drag. Ferrari's vertical flat sidepods creates a low pressure area in front of the rear tires which reduces the rear tires drag . Kyle.engineers also explained this in his youtube video about f1-75.
It seems so counterintuitive that these massive sidepods produce less drags. But when you consider that tires were responsible for about 40% of the total drag of the car until last year and with the new cars, not only the diameter of the tires increased, but also the bodywork of the new cars produce less drag, so you expect the tires be responsible for more than 40% of the drag. So focusing to reduce the drag created by tires may not be a bad choice actually.

The only thing we must keep in mind as has been mentioned before, is that we don't have a complete view of the packages as a whole.

Absolutely, maybe Mercedes uses other tricks to reduce rear tire drags, maybe they produce much more downforce, but we don't know and as vanja himself said, the models are basic and are just used to compare different concepts.

They have several devices on the car that aren't on the CFD model used in the analysis. Likewise Ferrari.

It's an excellent piece of work but it isolates the sidepods so entirely from the real car, that it's naturally limited in use as a tool to say "this is the answer".

[Just_a_fan]

Looks mean

the only one currently running inward pointing vortex generators on the wing adjusters. this means they want to generate more vortex

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/d ... 299058.JPG

Why does it?
Surely it just means that is the genral direction of flow in that region.

If the vortex device is pointing inboard, then flow isn't inboard. Or at least it's unlikely. You want the VG to be "across" the flow in order for it to build up a pressure difference across it. The pressure difference is what causes the vortex as the air flows up and over from the high pressure side to the low pressure side.

[PlatinumZealot]

I like the CFD that is being done. I think showing the vortices and where they go would be icing on the cake.

Here is a closer look at how Mercedes took advantage of the allowed flap-adjustment mechanism to make an apparent step in the wing. The zero position is still continuous as you can see. Shows well their mentality of pushing the boundaries!!

[AeroDynamic]

[Morteza]

Via @f1debrief

[SmallSoldier]

By Alessandro Arcari: