Alfa Romeo C42

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
theVortexCreatorY250
12
Joined: 07 Oct 2021, 14:53

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

godlameroso wrote:
18 Feb 2022, 22:50
theVortexCreatorY250 wrote:
18 Feb 2022, 22:46
godlameroso wrote:
18 Feb 2022, 21:24


I can demonstrate that it was. In regular air, flow will choke in a duct if the inlet pressure is twice the pressure in the throat. The leading edge of the floor is the inlet, notice the sharp high pressure on the outboard of the strakes. You notice the pressure differential is much lower on the top design vs the bottom one. The strakes and the center car body form a duct, the strakes raise the pressure outboard with their outwash, and create a pressure difference at the inner strake and center car body. Notice the red and the transition to blue, to me a 2:1 pressure ratio is evident. Choked flow doesn't mean no flow, it means no more upstream flow than what has been achieved. Choked flow is sonic flow and thus follows compressible flow rules. As the strakes diverge the speed increases, but the vortex breaks down before it can be accelerated by the venturi tunnel, because the mass flow is limited.

The top design has more mass flow and although choking still happens, the shockwave and expansion fan is more mild as you can see by the weaker vortex.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/cont ... 022+F1.png

Choking at the inlet is not desirable, choking at the throat of the venturi tunnel is, because as the top design shows, if the pressure in the diffuser is choked, then it will pull in air by the edge wing. You'll notice the pressure trace at the edge wing and the beam wing is higher than the bottom one. To me, that indicates higher mass flow, and lower pressure overall.

Downforce with these rules depends on thrusting the air under the car, well thrust = mass flow x velocity. Downvote away.
I don't understand why your going to choke at 2:1, do you have a reference? I wouldn't be surprised if the teams achieve well over 3:1.
How can you comment on this without a colour scale?
I highly doubt this CFD is density based,thus compressibility effects are neglected. Yes the bottom vortex breaks down eariler, but it still creates WAY more downforce.
https://files.catbox.moe/5679d4.jpg

P0 is reservoir pressure, in our case the inlet, and Pc is pressure measured at the throat.

Bottom floor actually is down 60 points of downforce vs the top one. Furtheremore, I have a lot of experience with choked flow in a duct, the artifacts are obvious and clear. Once again, I refer you to that youtube video I posted, you see the same choked flow phenomena.
The contour plot is clearly on Cp, not Cp0/CpT. That's formula relies on Total Pressure, so interpreting it from that contour is impossible.
In that F1 2022 video on Youtube where he actually does the CFD, he says the second case is the bottom one and that has the massive downforce gain.
I create vortices

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Thanks for clearing that up, then I was wrong, you want choking at the inlet. Nevertheless, choking is desirable.
Saishū kōnā

OO7
OO7
171
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

godlameroso wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 03:50
Thanks for clearing that up, then I was wrong, you want choking at the inlet. Nevertheless, choking is desirable.
Something crossed my mind when I read the bold part from you. It's not for this thread/forum though. :lol:

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

OO7 wrote:
20 Feb 2022, 16:02
godlameroso wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 03:50
Thanks for clearing that up, then I was wrong, you want choking at the inlet. Nevertheless, choking is desirable.
Something crossed my mind when I read the bold part from you. It's not for this thread/forum though. :lol:
You can try to choke me if you want, or arm bar, or leg lock, or Deutche-suplex. I'll be at the Miami race. :evil:
Saishū kōnā

the EDGE
the EDGE
67
Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 18:31
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

godlameroso wrote:
20 Feb 2022, 18:16
OO7 wrote:
20 Feb 2022, 16:02
godlameroso wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 03:50
Thanks for clearing that up, then I was wrong, you want choking at the inlet. Nevertheless, choking is desirable.
Something crossed my mind when I read the bold part from you. It's not for this thread/forum though. :lol:
You can try to choke me if you want, or arm bar, or leg lock, or Deutche-suplex. I'll be at the Miami race. :evil:
i'm not so sure that is what was on his mind... :wink:

OO7
OO7
171
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

godlameroso wrote:
20 Feb 2022, 18:16
OO7 wrote:
20 Feb 2022, 16:02
godlameroso wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 03:50
Thanks for clearing that up, then I was wrong, you want choking at the inlet. Nevertheless, choking is desirable.
Something crossed my mind when I read the bold part from you. It's not for this thread/forum though. :lol:
You can try to choke me if you want, or arm bar, or leg lock, or Deutche-suplex. I'll be at the Miami race. :evil:
the EDGE wrote:
20 Feb 2022, 18:20
i'm not so sure that is what was on his mind... :wink:
Yep, that wasn't on my mind, but from henceforth, I'm no longer involved in this. :lol:

User avatar
wogx
60
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 18:48

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Image
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.

User avatar
Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
wogx
60
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 18:48

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Image
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.

User avatar
AeroDynamic
349
Joined: 28 Sep 2021, 12:25
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Alfa Romeo louvres close view
Image

Wastegate design appears to be different on the Alfa compared to the Ferrari. Ferrari and Haas both have their wastegate pipe as external as possible for as long as possible, whilst Alfa have opted for an intersection much further back
Image
Image
Last edited by AeroDynamic on 24 Feb 2022, 13:00, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
ojir19
38
Joined: 21 Feb 2022, 07:40

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

wastegate exit, comparison with Ferrari WG

Image
Image
okhörosinc bandhi-bandhi, mœnoghujlu sil ɥmhpleöng, kêmphád chømu kwærthwono

User avatar
AeroDynamic
349
Joined: 28 Sep 2021, 12:25
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
ojir19
38
Joined: 21 Feb 2022, 07:40

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
okhörosinc bandhi-bandhi, mœnoghujlu sil ɥmhpleöng, kêmphád chømu kwærthwono

User avatar
AeroDynamic
349
Joined: 28 Sep 2021, 12:25
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

Alfa Romeo officially launched their car

Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by AeroDynamic on 27 Feb 2022, 12:02, edited 1 time in total.

tomazy
tomazy
208
Joined: 10 Jan 2006, 13:01

Re: Alfa Romeo C42

Post

This has a diffirent front wing, a diffirent floor and a difirent beam wing than the car in testing. Just a few changes I saw on the first glance.