Mercedes W13

[Unc1eM0nty]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... n/8512037/

This does not make sense, surely the sidepods are already shrunk fit to the internal packaging, I'm sure there is room for improvement with fine tweaks, but "heavily revised" I doubt it.

Drag isn't just the size of a thing, it's the shape of the thing too. They can change the shape to reduce drag without making it have a smaller volume.

Yes I agree but it's too late for all that, the engine and radiator packaging are what they are, they've chosen a this layout for a reason and it's too late to make wholesale changes, they just don't have to budget they had in previous seasons.

I'm not saying it can't be improved or that we won't see lots of changes throughout the season, it's "heavily revised" bit i find difficult to accept.

[dans79]

This does not make sense, surely the sidepods are already shrunk fit to the internal packaging, I'm sure there is room for improvement with fine tweaks, but "heavily revised" I doubt it.

Drag isn't just the size of a thing, it's the shape of the thing too. They can change the shape to reduce drag without making it have a smaller volume.

Yes I agree but it's too late for all that, the engine and radiator packaging are what they are, they've chosen a this layout for a reason and it's too late to make wholesale changes, they just don't have to budget they had in previous seasons.

I'm not saying it can't be improved or that we won't see lots of changes throughout the season, it's "heavily revised" bit i find difficult to accept.

The thing is "heavily revised" is an ambiguous phrase. They could re-work the floor, and everything from the sidepod inlets all the way back to the tip of the diffuser, but if it's a 1 or 2 mms here, 0.5mm there, and 4mm over there type of deal no one will know.

To the aerodynamicists and engineers that is heavily revised, but to joe smoe fan, it's a tiny update, because they can't tell the difference.

[zibby43]

But while Lewis Hamilton openly confessed that the team had faced some ‘obstacles’ in Barcelona, it has emerged that the team’s performance in the next Bahrain test is set to be lifted by a potentially major upgrade of aerodynamic parts.

There has even been speculation in the Barcelona paddock that it could include a heavily revised sidepod area to help further reduce the car’s drag on the straight and better manage airflow.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... n/8512037/

Interesting. One of the conclusions of the Vanj66 guy in his CFD analysis of a hypothetical micro-pod vs tub-pod design was that the micropod has a somewhat "inherent" lack of efficiency compared to the tub pod model. It seemed to be related to the way the sidepod changes the pressure distribution in front of the rear tires.

That’s a very astute connecting of dots there.

[zibby43]

This does not make sense, surely the sidepods are already shrunk fit to the internal packaging, I'm sure there is room for improvement with fine tweaks, but "heavily revised" I doubt it.

We’ve seen them do this before with the side pods during the season. Austria 2018. There is scope for redesign.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 4s0e2.html

I cannot for the life of me open this link on mobile. Is there a better version? It just gets blocked my content blockers, and then when I turn them off it forces me to a payment page for f1tv!

That’s weird. Tested it on a few different devices and worked fine. Try this one. Let me know if it works.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 4s0e2.html

[izzy]

The impression I get is that they have to either outwash beyond the rear wheels or inwash inside them with a bigger flow but not as clean, one or the other. And Red Bull and Ferrari have gone outwash while Mercedes have gone inwash. If this is at all correct then I'd be a bit surprised if they charge concept now, I bet Mercedes have just planned to use their test data to shrink to the max.

[AR3-GP]

This does not make sense, surely the sidepods are already shrunk fit to the internal packaging, I'm sure there is room for improvement with fine tweaks, but "heavily revised" I doubt it.

Drag isn't just the size of a thing, it's the shape of the thing too. They can change the shape to reduce drag without making it have a smaller volume.

Yes I agree but it's too late for all that, the engine and radiator packaging are what they are, they've chosen a this layout for a reason and it's too late to make wholesale changes, they just don't have to budget they had in previous seasons.

I'm not saying it can't be improved or that we won't see lots of changes throughout the season, it's "heavily revised" bit i find difficult to accept.

The Merc mechanical bits are tightly packaged. They have room to grow the bodywork outwards to improve drag quite trivially...

[LM10]

Drag isn't just the size of a thing, it's the shape of the thing too. They can change the shape to reduce drag without making it have a smaller volume.

Yes I agree but it's too late for all that, the engine and radiator packaging are what they are, they've chosen a this layout for a reason and it's too late to make wholesale changes, they just don't have to budget they had in previous seasons.

I'm not saying it can't be improved or that we won't see lots of changes throughout the season, it's "heavily revised" bit i find difficult to accept.

The Merc mechanical bits are tightly packaged. They have room to grow the bodywork outwards to improve drag quite trivially...

Every significant change to the sidepod shape will require changes to the rest of the entire car as wider sidepods would mean a drastical concept change for Mercedes.
As Mercedes have already chosen their philosophy and built their whole car around it, we’ll quite surely not see a change to such extends. If they even decide to change concept, it will not be before next season until we see it.

[zibby43]

Yes I agree but it's too late for all that, the engine and radiator packaging are what they are, they've chosen a this layout for a reason and it's too late to make wholesale changes, they just don't have to budget they had in previous seasons.

I'm not saying it can't be improved or that we won't see lots of changes throughout the season, it's "heavily revised" bit i find difficult to accept.

The Merc mechanical bits are tightly packaged. They have room to grow the bodywork outwards to improve drag quite trivially...

Every significant change to the sidepod shape will require changes to the rest of the entire car as wider sidepods would mean a drastical concept change for Mercedes.
As Mercedes have already chosen their philosophy and built their whole car around it, we’ll quite surely not see a change to such extends. If they even decide to change concept, it will not be before next season until we see it.

They could have already made the change months ago.

As I stated previously, a side pod change really isn’t that difficult to execute for a top team. They pulled it off mid-season in 2018. Only thing they couldn’t do was move the SIPS.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... 30693/amp/

[Chuckjr]

Why would Merc or any team for that matter go about changing/adjusting their entire aero philosophy when none of the cars are fully understood, or even close to optimized? I think is a pretty radical to think that Merc or any team is going to abandon or majorly change their aero philosophy based on one 3 day test when none of the cars were pushed, none of the engines turned up, and none of the teams could possibly know the true speed of themselves or others.

Furthermore, just because the Ferrari looks radically different does not mean it’s better than everyone else and vice versa for the Merc and everyone else. We don’t, heck nobody, not even the teams, know enough at this point.

My guess is Merc has had the update package for test 2 planned since before the season, and this last test was simply to get baseline correlations to take that next step, not decide who’s fastest, or who has the best aero philosophy. We in fact won’t know who likely got it right till at least a few races have finished, yet alone pre-season testing.

[AR3-GP]

Yes I agree but it's too late for all that, the engine and radiator packaging are what they are, they've chosen a this layout for a reason and it's too late to make wholesale changes, they just don't have to budget they had in previous seasons.

I'm not saying it can't be improved or that we won't see lots of changes throughout the season, it's "heavily revised" bit i find difficult to accept.

The Merc mechanical bits are tightly packaged. They have room to grow the bodywork outwards to improve drag quite trivially...

Every significant change to the sidepod shape will require changes to the rest of the entire car as wider sidepods would mean a drastical concept change for Mercedes.
As Mercedes have already chosen their philosophy and built their whole car around it, we’ll quite surely not see a change to such extends. If they even decide to change concept, it will not be before next season until we see it.

We aren't talking about a change of concept. We're talking about reducing drag of the sidepods by some modifications to it's shape. I think you might be overthinking this. It doesn't need to be a B-spec car to change the sidepod. Cars are developed in small bits and pieces all of the time.

[AeroDynamic]

it's an engineering feat for Mercedes to package the way they have. They have a good foundation for building what they want concept wise; they're free and flexible, as opposed to other teams where their scope might have been compromised by packaging a bit more.

[dialtone]

The packaging they have is often a consequence of what they chose as an aero philosophy. It’s true that Merc is packaged incredibly well, but their center line cooling has implications for other areas, so does Ferrari tiny top inlet. Teams approached this year with an idea and made trade offs, Merc can probably do a lot, but there are real limits before they need to repackage stuff and we are then talking months of work.

[AR3-GP]

The packaging they have is often a consequence of what they chose as an aero philosophy. It’s true that Merc is packaged incredibly well, but their center line cooling has implications for other areas, so does Ferrari tiny top inlet. Teams approached this year with an idea and made trade offs, Merc can probably do a lot, but there are real limits before they need to repackage stuff and we are then talking months of work.

Again, you are overthinking it. A simple refinement of side pod shape to optimize drag does not require a B-spec car. With your mindset, no part of the car could be changed without months of work and an b-spec. They can still make small changes to the sidepod like the barge-pod departure angle, louvers, etc that are still cooperative with the rest of the aero package. These teams are expected to have little upgrades every single race weekend.

[west52keep64]

The rules are so prescriptive now, it's hard to really draw a definitive line between different aero philosophies. If you moved a few things around on the W13, is it really all that different from the MCL36?

The cars this year a different, but they are a far cry from the different aero concepts of previous years. They are all fundamentally part of the same very prescriptive formula now, and the differences between them are things all teams could adopt either during this season or in future seasons.

The idea that any team is married to a particular aero philosophy is a thing of the past.

[De Jokke]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105256/m ... -that.html

Is it really that easy, as I would expect a total overhaul of the car in case of new 'pods'