Whats the difference

[NathanOlder]

Just something Im asking for your opinions,

2021 Silverstone incident,
2011 Indian GP incident,


Point of contact




Video's of both




Both are fast corners after a straight, and I see in both of these the car ahead on the outside, the attacking car on the inside. The attacking car is well alongside, at least half way at the least as they enter the braking zone. The car on the inside brakes earlier as he has a tighter line so will need to be slower. The car on the outside turns in aggressively, they touch, at the point of contact the car on the inside still has a small amount of room approx 1m to the white line. They are not yet at the apex of the corner. The car on the outside is spun off the circuit. The car on the inside is damaged but continues.

Are there any real major differences here ?

[Airshifter]

Not huge differences but the trajectory of Lewis was towards the inside edge of the track in India, and a reasonably sustained move.

In Great Britain he seemed to not want to head to the inside of the track. Ultimately it seemed he got some understeer that sealed the deal.

I can't remember if they placed soul blame on Massa or not in India, but he did get a penalty if I recall correctly.


But really this is also another example of cars racing harder together coming together more often. If I recall properly Lewis and Felipe came together several times in 2011.

[CMSMJ1]

Smells of fishing for bites!

The attitudes and driving rules have changed in ten years. You cannot get away with things you used to be able to.

If we're getting into serious whataboutery, then let's get it out of current drivers.

How do we see the Suzuka clashes in 89 or 90? What about Adelaide 1994?

[NathanOlder]

Smells of fishing for bites!

The attitudes and driving rules have changed in ten years. You cannot get away with things you used to be able to.

If we're getting into serious whataboutery, then let's get it out of current drivers.

How do we see the Suzuka clashes in 89 or 90? What about Adelaide 1994?

Not sure how those incidents are relevant to anything that happened recently. But seeing as you asked I'll answer them in short,

89 Suzuka I feel if we had replays and telemetry of today, it would be easier to see how Prost turned in early to block his rival from passing , causing both cars to come to a standstill. Senna may have got away with being bump started as his car was in a very dangerous place so would have still took the win, and Prost would have been handed a grid penalty in the next race. Would have been interesting to see who would have won the championship.

90 Suzuka I would say it was clear Senna was too far behind to have any right to stick his nose in, so would have received a hefty grid penalty for the next race. Senna still wins the championship.

94 would have stayed the same, Schumacher had no form of dirty tactics at that point so would still have won the championship, and like today it still would be seen as not a fully legit title with the way he won it.

How about you add some value to the thread instead of derailing it and taking it in a completely different, ridiculous direction?

[Just_a_fan]

The attitudes and driving rules have changed in ten years. You cannot get away with things you used to be able to.

And you can get away stuff that you couldn't back in the day, too.

"Let them race!"

[AeroDynamic]

The attitudes and driving rules have changed in ten years. You cannot get away with things you used to be able to.

And you can get away stuff that you couldn't back in the day, too.

"Let them race!"

Depends who you are as well sometimes. We see examples of that in many places outside of racing, forums being an easy example.

As far as the video comparison goes, nuance differences but not too much difference either.

The interesting thing is, when Lewis is the inside driver washing out wide to own the corner from the inside, as his rival had been doing up to that point, people think it was not correct. By doing that, they then are also admitting that the rival driver's tactics were not acceptable either, and must accept he was unpunished because Hamilton chose to live to fight and win in another corner, instead of giving the other driver his race finish a DNF on a plate. When the roles were reversed, someone didn't yield and the ugliness of the driving techniques that were encouraged and supported by 'let them race' just came to a head when it became clear that only one driver was going to make it work by avoiding aggressive manoeuvres to own corners that risk crashes if the other driver doesn't avoid.

[dans79]

Just something Im asking for your opinions,

2021 Silverstone incident,
2011 Indian GP incident,

Are there any real major differences here ?

Neither driver was a title contender in 2011, and FOM cared a lot less about the show back then, than Liberty does now. Regardless of what they say, I firmly believe the Stewards take who the drivers are, and where they and their teams are in the standings into account when they make decisions.

[Just_a_fan]

The interesting thing is, when Lewis is the inside driver washing out wide to own the corner from the inside, as his rival had been doing up to that point, people think it was not correct. By doing that, they then are also admitting that the rival driver's tactics were not acceptable either, and must accept he was unpunished because Hamilton chose to live to fight and win in another corner, instead of giving the other driver his race finish a DNF on a plate. When the roles were reversed, someone didn't yield and the ugliness of the driving techniques that were encouraged and supported by 'let them race' just came to a head when it became clear that only one driver was going to make it work by avoiding aggressive manoeuvres to own corners that risk crashes if the other driver doesn't avoid.

That's about the size of it.

[Aesop]

Difference is Massa left no space inside, Max did. And in Silvertone Lewis missed the apex.

[Just_a_fan]

Difference is Massa left no space inside, Max did. And in Silvertone Lewis missed the apex.

At Silverstone, the contact occurred well before the apex. The apex is where that pretty red and white kerbing is in the distance.

[NathanOlder]

Difference is Massa left no space inside, Max did. And in Silvertone Lewis missed the apex.

Well the 2 photos I posted show that both times at the point of contact, there was space on the inside and neither of the incidents had even reached the apex.

[DChemTech]

Difference is Massa left no space inside, Max did. And in Silvertone Lewis missed the apex.

Well the 2 photos I posted show that both times at the point of contact, there was space on the inside and neither of the incidents had even reached the apex.

Well, then perhaps Lewis should have been penalized in 2011, too

[SiLo]

Here's a thread that will only end up locked.

[Aesop]

Difference is Massa left no space inside, Max did. And in Silvertone Lewis missed the apex.

At Silverstone, the contact occurred well before the apex. The apex is where that pretty red and white kerbing is in the distance.

I stand corrected, I should've said: Lewis would have missed the apex.

[NathanOlder]

Difference is Massa left no space inside, Max did. And in Silvertone Lewis missed the apex.

Well the 2 photos I posted show that both times at the point of contact, there was space on the inside and neither of the incidents had even reached the apex.

Well, then perhaps Lewis should have been penalized in 2011, too

exactly my point really, how can incidents that are so similar be penalised in the opposite way ?

If you watch 2011 and think, "ok thats how it works." Fast forward and then watch Silverstone, you would think "well Max ended up out the race, so penalising him would be harsh, so we'll leave it as a racing incident."

But to think Horner and Marko wanted Hamilton banned for it!