2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Big Tea]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

It looks that way, but remember all the track work they have done was planned. A race may not be the same with car to car events and not being able to take the line they want every tine, recharging, tyre use etc on unknown tyres.

It looks like they will be there abouts, but it may mot be an easy race.

[Dee]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

And if what AMuS say is true, RB is overweight by 15/20 kg. If they bring that down, you would think it would add performance to the car?

And I'm still interested to see what Honda's performance is on a low rake car. RB/AT high rake designs may have hidden how powerful it acually was vs Merc

[Just_a_fan]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

And if what AMuS say is true, RB is overweight by 15/20 kg. If they bring that down, you would think it would add performance to the car?

And I'm still interested to see what Honda's performance is on a low rake car. RB/AT high rake designs may have hidden how powerful it acually was vs Merc

If they are 15-20kg overweight and are able to trim all of that off, then yes it will bring lap time to the car.

Why should a high rake car hide PU output?

[AeroDynamic]

depends what the weight is for. if its weight that adds performance to the car in other ways unrelated to weight, then they must justify themselves for the weight. Most things in a car are justified for achieving the aim of performance. If they lose the weight without finding it back through other materials or designs, then it can easily mean a drop in performance balanced out by gain in performance from weight.

[Dee]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

And if what AMuS say is true, RB is overweight by 15/20 kg. If they bring that down, you would think it would add performance to the car?

And I'm still interested to see what Honda's performance is on a low rake car. RB/AT high rake designs may have hidden how powerful it acually was vs Merc

If they are 15-20kg overweight and are able to trim all of that off, then yes it will bring lap time to the car.

Why should a high rake car hide PU output?

I always had the idea, (due to Sky commentators) that high rake cars have drag on the straights but make up more time in the corners, that's why RB were awful in Monza but brill at Baku (example)

[AeroDynamic]

And if what AMuS say is true, RB is overweight by 15/20 kg. If they bring that down, you would think it would add performance to the car?

And I'm still interested to see what Honda's performance is on a low rake car. RB/AT high rake designs may have hidden how powerful it acually was vs Merc

If they are 15-20kg overweight and are able to trim all of that off, then yes it will bring lap time to the car.

Why should a high rake car hide PU output?

I always had the idea, (due to Sky commentators) that high rake cars have drag on the straights but make up more time in the corners, that's why RB were awful in Monza but brill at Baku (example)

Thats what I thought as well although the issue extends to the DFvsDrag ratio on the body work as well.

In the case of the Honda pushing those bulls, they would've lost on the straight but wouldn't they also make up a bit of time in slower twister track sequences / corners by jumping on the throttle quicker in those corners? Low rake worked with longer wheel base.

previously low rake cars might have a more balanced way of exploiting pace in straights and corners than they used to rather than leaning more towards cornering.

[Dee]

If they are 15-20kg overweight and are able to trim all of that off, then yes it will bring lap time to the car.

Why should a high rake car hide PU output?

I always had the idea, (due to Sky commentators) that high rake cars have drag on the straights but make up more time in the corners, that's why RB were awful in Monza but brill at Baku (example)

Thats what I thought as well although the issue extends to the DFvsDrag ratio on the body work as well.

In the case of the Honda pushing those bulls, they would've lost on the straight but wouldn't they also make up a bit of time in slower twister track sequences / corners by jumping on the throttle quicker in those corners? Low rake worked with longer wheel base.

previously low rake cars might have a more balanced way of exploiting pace in straights and corners than they used to rather than leaning more towards cornering.

High rake as far as I know was invented by Newey as RB didn't have the engine needed (Renault were 50hp plus down at one point), they could not compete on power tracks but could still win in Monaco due to the car. I'm not sure Honda engine would make much of a difference there when the chassis was built to do the work in the slow corners, the speed accelerating out is still quite low.

We shall see, sorry for sidetracking. Just interested to see how they will compare this wkd.

[zibby43]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

George Russell said their performance was unspectacular.

RB’s performance this year reminds me of Ferrari in testing 2019.

[Juzh]

Mercedes was running with what seemed like F2 levels of power for most of the test, so I wouldn't worry too much about their competitiveness when they turn it up finally. Any time there was an onboard or live speed graphic shown they were 10 kmh down on every straight and it was obvious engine sounded dull as hell, derating constantly. That's what Sainz meant when he said mercedes is sandbagging, and telemetry graphics circulating around just confirm this theory.
Red bull sandbagged the least in my opinion. C5 + obviously much higher engine mode.

[Big Tea]

Mercedes was running with what seemed like F2 levels of power for most of the test, so I wouldn't worry too much about their competitiveness when they turn it up finally. Any time there was an onboard or live speed graphic shown they were 10 kmh down on every straight and it was obvious engine sounded dull as hell, derating constantly. That's what Sainz meant when he said mercedes is sandbagging, and telemetry graphics circulating around just confirm this theory.
Red bull sandbagged the least in my opinion. C5 + obviously much higher engine mode.

Irrespective of power, it just looked like it did not want to go around corners. Wind it up and hit the corner faster and it amplifies the problem. The maximum speed the car will handle the corner stays the same what ever power it has.

It can cover the distance between corners more quickly, but there is then a higher chance of approaching too quickly or getting the foot down too soon and having an off. It just did not look happy.

It is possible that only half the mods were brought to testing and the other half will fix the problem and Merc do not want to show their hand, but if we are seeing it as it is, I do not think it is a winning car at the moment.

But then, people have said that before and been wrong

[organic]

Mercedes was running with what seemed like F2 levels of power for most of the test, so I wouldn't worry too much about their competitiveness when they turn it up finally. Any time there was an onboard or live speed graphic shown they were 10 kmh down on every straight and it was obvious engine sounded dull as hell, derating constantly. That's what Sainz meant when he said mercedes is sandbagging, and telemetry graphics circulating around just confirm this theory.
Red bull sandbagged the least in my opinion. C5 + obviously much higher engine mode.

C5 wasn't worth much time at Bahrain over C4. Charles put C5s on just after his C4 and went 4 hundredths slower. The track is too abrasive and intense on the C5s to make them a big step. Fabrega said there is no time between the two compounds and Mark Hughes said a couple of tenths at best.

It's obvious the RB engine mode was higher than Ferrari on the last day but both teams seemed to push it on day 2 and RB still had the highest top speeds, so perhaps there's not as much time in the engine mode as is suggested. Ofc hard to know how much each team showed their hand.

Yeah Merc's PU was crazy detuned for much of it. I think when Lewis was battling Sainz (?) he was hit 313kph on day 3 which without a slipstream would probably be around 307-308 like Russell got in the afternoon. Ferrari was also hitting 308ish at speedtrap on the final day so day 3 maybe Merc had theirs turned up a little more than earlier in the test.

[LM10]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

I had the opposite feeling. Ferrari went about their work without seeking any glory runs. They simply were fast and stable out of the box and appeared to be fast on many occasions. But they weren’t even trying. Always on low PU mode and never on low fuel - as per reports.

RedBull on the other hand turned the PU up on last day, though were not on low fuel (obviously). On AMuS a Mercedes engineer was quoted regarding RedBull having turned it up.
The reason they have not shown pace through the first 5 days primarily was due to their understeer problem which they solved on the last day as their upgrade brought them more than 5 tenths apparently.

[basti313]

Irrespective of power, it just looked like it did not want to go around corners. Wind it up and hit the corner faster and it amplifies the problem. The maximum speed the car will handle the corner stays the same what ever power it has.

Well, but the data comparison with the Ferrari just shows a similar pace in the corners.

I still can not see an argument except for "it looks better" why the Ferrari should be competitive against the Merc.

[Dee]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

I had the opposite feeling. Ferrari went about their work without seeking any glory runs. They simply were fast and stable out of the box and appeared to be fast on many occasions. But they weren’t even trying. Always on low PU mode and never on low fuel - as per reports.

RedBull on the other hand turned the PU up on last day, though were not on low fuel (obviously). On AMuS a Mercedes engineer was quoted regarding RedBull having turned it up.
The reason they have not shown pace through the first 5 days primarily was due to their understeer problem which they solved on the last day as their upgrade brought them more than 5 tenths apparently.

Red Bull turned up the engine on Friday with fuel on board 327kph, Max did his lap on Sat with a Max speed of 313kph, Russell and Leclerc were 308kph on Sat.

[organic]

I still think the Red Bull is the car to beat. People are talking up Ferrari but Red Bull just went about their work really quietly with no obvious pace through the 6 days. Then right at the end they put in a lap that wasn't exactly hanging on by the finger tips. That car has lots of performance on tap and Red Bull clearly haven't shown their hand yet. A bit like the early days of the hybrids with Mercedes.

I expect Mx to have a comfy lead in the title race over the first handful of races.

I had the opposite feeling. Ferrari went about their work without seeking any glory runs. They simply were fast and stable out of the box and appeared to be fast on many occasions. But they weren’t even trying. Always on low PU mode and never on low fuel - as per reports.

RedBull on the other hand turned the PU up on last day, though were not on low fuel (obviously). On AMuS a Mercedes engineer was quoted regarding RedBull having turned it up.
The reason they have not shown pace through the first 5 days primarily was due to their understeer problem which they solved on the last day as their upgrade brought them more than 5 tenths apparently.

Red Bull turned up the engine on Friday with fuel on board 327kph, Max did his lap on Sat with a Max speed of 313kph, Russell and Leclerc were 308kph on Sat.

The wind changed direction iirc. Is possible 313kph is the engine turned higher on sat into the headwind