2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

[shamyakovic]

[Juzh]

Nice.

At a quick glance Merc look fast in the fast corners and slow in the slow corners. Alfa Romeo interestingly the opposite.

Other than the usual, non-obvious caveats, the obvious ones is the tire compound difference between Alfa and Mercedes. Taking that into account, the picture could likely look different between then and could favor Alfa a bit more.

It doesn't look good for Ferrari if one is to take the information at face value - they're doing even worse than Mercedes on those images.

It's worth noting this in the thread:

Disclaimer
The source of this data is non-official. The telemetry data is sampled at a low rate and has been interpolated for clarity. As a result, the precision and/or integrity of the data cannot be guaranteed.

It's basically a case of "here's some stuff I've done but don't bet your life on it!".

Why are you just immediately disregarding someone's work? I don't know why in the world he's saying data is unofficial when it's coming from FOM servers which in turn is coming directly from cars. The only way this data differentiates from what you'd see on halo HUD or live speed is in terms of refresh rate, 4 hz for this analysis and ~15 hz for what you see on TV images. Otherwise this data is exactly the same. I'd agree 4 hz is kinda low for such precise measurements but with some smart interpolation you can get pretty close to see general trends and even some more nuances, just don't expect accuracy down to 0.01 or anything like that.

[Gillian]

I´ve always considered Rosberg title as a proof of Hamilton lack of motivation. Not saying he does not deserve it, none was faster than him that season so he deserve it. But let´s be honest, Rosberg has never been a rival of Hamilton in normal conditions. Similar to Button, Raikonnen, etc, a very good driver who, if in a top car, can win titles, but not a top class into the top class.

But this is F1, car and team counts even more than driver, so some top class into the top class never won a title, while some other lower class drivers won some. Like it or not, this is F1

I agree. I think when drivers are title less or its been years between highs, their hunger intensity makes them operate that little bit more 'on it' than other times. Once you've won a title or two, its easy to 'relax' a little and enjoy it more (human nature)

I think when Hamilton loses a title he knows he could have won (07, '16, '21?) he can tap into that peak motivation and hunger again. perhaps we saw it coming back towards the back end of last season as well.

I don't believe Michael was hungry enough to adapt to all the new things when he came back.

I think Verstappen will still be operating very high but if he's in a close fight with a hungry Leclerc or Russel / Norris with a slightly lesser car, I would give them the edge in terms of hunger/motivation. Verstappen's '21 consistency really showed how much he wanted that title imo.

Not a dig at you personally but I find this hilarious. Last season Hamilton would win against Verstappen because he had more experience being a WC. Now Verstappen is a WC and suddenly it's a negative? Having not won one gives the advantage?

[Just_a_fan]

Other than the usual, non-obvious caveats, the obvious ones is the tire compound difference between Alfa and Mercedes. Taking that into account, the picture could likely look different between then and could favor Alfa a bit more.

It doesn't look good for Ferrari if one is to take the information at face value - they're doing even worse than Mercedes on those images.

It's worth noting this in the thread:

Disclaimer
The source of this data is non-official. The telemetry data is sampled at a low rate and has been interpolated for clarity. As a result, the precision and/or integrity of the data cannot be guaranteed.

It's basically a case of "here's some stuff I've done but don't bet your life on it!".

Why are you just immediately disregarding someone's work? I don't know why in the world he's saying data is unofficial when it's coming from FOM servers which in turn is coming directly from cars. The only way this data differentiates from what you'd see on halo HUD or live speed is in terms of refresh rate, 4 hz for this analysis and ~15 hz for what you see on TV images. Otherwise this data is exactly the same. I'd agree 4 hz is kinda low for such precise measurements but with some smart interpolation you can get pretty close to see general trends and even some more nuances, just don't expect accuracy down to 0.01 or anything like that.

I'm not disregarding his work - I merely pointed out the very important disclaimer attached to it. I guess he's saying it's unofficial because it's been analysed by him and not by the official channels. Your analyses, although excellent and appreciated by all here, are also unofficial for that same reason. Likewise any analysis done by Sky or other broadcaster.

As I said, I'm not disregarding his work, but he attaches his own disclaimer to it and a disclaimer should always be considered when looking at any source.

[Juzh]

It doesn't look good for Ferrari if one is to take the information at face value - they're doing even worse than Mercedes on those images.

It's worth noting this in the thread:


It's basically a case of "here's some stuff I've done but don't bet your life on it!".

Why are you just immediately disregarding someone's work? I don't know why in the world he's saying data is unofficial when it's coming from FOM servers which in turn is coming directly from cars. The only way this data differentiates from what you'd see on halo HUD or live speed is in terms of refresh rate, 4 hz for this analysis and ~15 hz for what you see on TV images. Otherwise this data is exactly the same. I'd agree 4 hz is kinda low for such precise measurements but with some smart interpolation you can get pretty close to see general trends and even some more nuances, just don't expect accuracy down to 0.01 or anything like that.

I'm not disregarding his work - I merely pointed out the very important disclaimer attached to it. I guess he's saying it's unofficial because it's been analysed by him and not by the official channels. Your analyses, although excellent and appreciated by all here, are also unofficial for that same reason. Likewise any analysis done by Sky or other broadcaster.

As I said, I'm not disregarding his work, but he attaches his own disclaimer to it and a disclaimer should always be considered when looking at any source.

Ok maybe i overreacted with that first sentence

[AeroDynamic]

I´ve always considered Rosberg title as a proof of Hamilton lack of motivation. Not saying he does not deserve it, none was faster than him that season so he deserve it. But let´s be honest, Rosberg has never been a rival of Hamilton in normal conditions. Similar to Button, Raikonnen, etc, a very good driver who, if in a top car, can win titles, but not a top class into the top class.

But this is F1, car and team counts even more than driver, so some top class into the top class never won a title, while some other lower class drivers won some. Like it or not, this is F1

I agree. I think when drivers are title less or its been years between highs, their hunger intensity makes them operate that little bit more 'on it' than other times. Once you've won a title or two, its easy to 'relax' a little and enjoy it more (human nature)

I think when Hamilton loses a title he knows he could have won (07, '16, '21?) he can tap into that peak motivation and hunger again. perhaps we saw it coming back towards the back end of last season as well.

I don't believe Michael was hungry enough to adapt to all the new things when he came back.

I think Verstappen will still be operating very high but if he's in a close fight with a hungry Leclerc or Russel / Norris with a slightly lesser car, I would give them the edge in terms of hunger/motivation. Verstappen's '21 consistency really showed how much he wanted that title imo.

Not a dig at you personally but I find this hilarious. Last season Hamilton would win against Verstappen because he had more experience being a WC. Now Verstappen is a WC and suddenly it's a negative? Having not won one gives the advantage?

Well, of course if you remove the meaning behind certain parts of the discussion and boil it down to that narrative in your own mind, it sounds hilarious to one.

We're simply pointing out the potential advantages on both sides: if you are an experienced Champion, that is an advantage. But motivation / hunger at the most intense level that a close battle brings might underline a disadvantage that the up and coming title contender has in spades.. as Verstappen as quoted describing it as 'a desperation' or something to that affect. That energy brings its own advantage. It's all relative to how your motivation is after you've done what you always wanted. If your motivation begins to wind down then someone else will have an advantage over you in that area. If your motivation remains the same, it won't be much of any disadvantage.

[smilodon]

Guys. I've searched but I can't find.... Does anyone have the fastest times in each setor of these tests?
Maybe it can show a different perspective of them.
Some teams were making fast setors and go slow in the same lap

Edit:
I found this in Reddit but I don't know if it's real.... And I didn't found the Barcelona one...

[silver]

I agree. I think when drivers are title less or its been years between highs, their hunger intensity makes them operate that little bit more 'on it' than other times. Once you've won a title or two, its easy to 'relax' a little and enjoy it more (human nature)

I think when Hamilton loses a title he knows he could have won (07, '16, '21?) he can tap into that peak motivation and hunger again. perhaps we saw it coming back towards the back end of last season as well.

I don't believe Michael was hungry enough to adapt to all the new things when he came back.

I think Verstappen will still be operating very high but if he's in a close fight with a hungry Leclerc or Russel / Norris with a slightly lesser car, I would give them the edge in terms of hunger/motivation. Verstappen's '21 consistency really showed how much he wanted that title imo.

Not a dig at you personally but I find this hilarious. Last season Hamilton would win against Verstappen because he had more experience being a WC. Now Verstappen is a WC and suddenly it's a negative? Having not won one gives the advantage?

Well, of course if you remove the meaning behind certain parts of the discussion and boil it down to that narrative in your own mind, it sounds hilarious to one.

We're simply pointing out the potential advantages on both sides: if you are an experienced Champion, that is an advantage. But motivation / hunger at the most intense level that a close battle brings might underline a disadvantage that the up and coming title contender has in spades.. as Verstappen as quoted describing it as 'a desperation' or something to that affect. That energy brings its own advantage. It's all relative to how your motivation is after you've done what you always wanted. If your motivation begins to wind down then someone else will have an advantage over you in that area. If your motivation remains the same, it won't be much of any disadvantage.

When the visor goes down, the competitive instincts takes over. Everything else is for people to dissect and discuss.

[Andres125sx]

When the visor goes down, the competitive instincts takes over. Everything else is for people to dissect and discuss.

Motivation is key on any competition, and while some people keep motivation up no matter what happened in the past, some others loose motivation when the goal has been achieved (becoming WDC). Ask Nico Rosberg or Kimi Raikonnen

Not saying that´s the case with Max, but it´s a posibility, we´ll find out soon tough

[Motörhead]

Guys. I've searched but I can't find.... Does anyone have the fastest times in each setor of these tests?
Maybe it can show a different perspective of them.
Some teams were making fast setors and go slow in the same lap

Edit:
I found this in Reddit but I don't know if it's real.... And I didn't found the Barcelona one...
https://i.redd.it/72slup0lbzm81.jpg

Not all of that information is right. The stand-out one that’s wrong at a glance in Haas.

MSC - 29.580 - 39,453 - 23.208 - 1.32.241 Are his sector times from day three. He did this in the last two hours when they had the track to themselves on a C4 tyre and has largely gone unreported as it puts him second of the day.
Please refer to my post on the previous page if you would like to confirm.

https://www.haasf1team.com/news/bahrain ... ay-3-recap

[Gillian]

When the visor goes down, the competitive instincts takes over. Everything else is for people to dissect and discuss.

Motivation is key on any competition, and while some people keep motivation up no matter what happened in the past, some others loose motivation when the goal has been achieved (becoming WDC). Ask Nico Rosberg or Kimi Raikonnen

Not saying that´s the case with Max, but it´s a posibility, we´ll find out soon tough

It's funny you mention Rosberg and Räikkönen. They both won a title without being the faster driver. IMO achieving the goal has nothing to do with their motivation.

Let me put it this way, had Rosberg been driving against someone else than Hamilton, would he have stopped in 2016? Pure conjecture but I think not. Winning the WDC wasn't a factor, driving against a faster/better driver was. He stopped because he knew he wasn't as good as Hamilton. Being the fastest, or believing you are, is a great motivator. Take that away and what's left...

That's why the discussion was futile last year and it still is this year. They're all motivated and believe they're the best. Doesn't matter how many WDC they have. If Verstappen gets beaten by another driver this year it was because the other guy was faster/better or/and had the better car/team. Not because he lost motivation.

[AeroDynamic]

If Verstappen gets beaten by another driver this year it was because the other guy was faster/better or/and had the better car/team. Not because he lost motivation.

Yeah.. has nothing to do with where the strategists make calls on tracks, package and how effective your equipment is.

And it’s kinda like saying, a horny virgin who never got laid, pursues his first and best opportunity no more determined and motivated as someone that’s been there done that 7 times and already moved on to be focused on a number of other things outside of formula 1.

In battle you need to push yourself to. Get the absolute maximum every time. It takes alot of work, it’s not as simple as pulling the visor down and driving. Have you prepared as much, do you feel like putting in all the blood sweat and tears into workout, simulator time, the tedious parts you,don’t want to do anymore because you’ve done it before (maybe enough times) incase it might increase some statistical tally even though it won’t make you champion like it did for the first time again.

This is also bearing in mind the circumstance that the car was very difficult to work with and required extra hard work to extract results out of it.. because some rule changes made it difficult to work well out of the box and set up.

Put a younger whipper snapper who is ‘desperate’ to get in his first girl and have a right go at it ( a championship grabbing car) for the first time, and there’s no question about how much you want to do all the work again after succeeding 7 times before. It’s called complacency.

That’s why dominance comes to an end. Was Andy cowell as passionate about his engine the last year as he was the first years he won with them? Doubt he cared as much just before he left.

I’m sure the Honda engineers who never got a title worked extra dedicated and hard to pursue that title. No complacency. Hence ‘threw the kitchen sink at it’ and they could do that because they hadn’t gratified the achievement of winning before in this era. The hunger is unsatiated, so there’s no let up at the first opportunity. Can’t say the same didn’t happen with Mercedes’ engine last season..

[Gillian]

If Verstappen gets beaten by another driver this year it was because the other guy was faster/better or/and had the better car/team. Not because he lost motivation.

Yeah.. has nothing to do with where the strategists make calls on tracks, package and how effective your equipment is.

And it’s kinda like saying, a horny virgin who never got laid, pursues his first and best opportunity no more determined and motivated as someone that’s been there done that 7 times and already moved on to be focused on a number of other things outside of formula 1.

In battle you need to push yourself to. Get the absolute maximum every time. It takes alot of work, it’s not as simple as pulling the visor down and driving. Have you prepared as much, do you feel like putting in all the blood sweat and tears into workout, simulator time, the tedious parts you,don’t want to do anymore because you’ve done it before (maybe enough times) incase it might increase some statistical tally even though it won’t make you champion like it did for the first time again.

This is also bearing in mind the circumstance that the car was very difficult to work with and required extra hard work to extract results out of it.. because some rule changes made it difficult to work well out of the box and set up.

Put a younger whipper snapper who is ‘desperate’ to get in his first girl and have a right go at it ( a championship grabbing car) for the first time, and there’s no question about how much you want to do all the work again after succeeding 7 times before. It’s called complacency.

That’s why dominance comes to an end. Was Andy cowell as passionate about his engine the last year as he was the first years he won with them? Doubt he cared as much just before he left.

I’m sure the Honda engineers who never got a title worked extra dedicated and hard to pursue that title. No complacency. Can’t say the same didn’t happen with Mercedes’ engine last season..

I did write:

or/and had the better car/team

.

Sex is a weird comparison because if anything one would want more not less after getting laid, as you put it.

[AeroDynamic]

If Verstappen gets beaten by another driver this year it was because the other guy was faster/better or/and had the better car/team. Not because he lost motivation.

Yeah.. has nothing to do with where the strategists make calls on tracks, package and how effective your equipment is.

And it’s kinda like saying, a horny virgin who never got laid, pursues his first and best opportunity no more determined and motivated as someone that’s been there done that 7 times and already moved on to be focused on a number of other things outside of formula 1.

In battle you need to push yourself to. Get the absolute maximum every time. It takes alot of work, it’s not as simple as pulling the visor down and driving. Have you prepared as much, do you feel like putting in all the blood sweat and tears into workout, simulator time, the tedious parts you,don’t want to do anymore because you’ve done it before (maybe enough times) incase it might increase some statistical tally even though it won’t make you champion like it did for the first time again.

This is also bearing in mind the circumstance that the car was very difficult to work with and required extra hard work to extract results out of it.. because some rule changes made it difficult to work well out of the box and set up.

Put a younger whipper snapper who is ‘desperate’ to get in his first girl and have a right go at it ( a championship grabbing car) for the first time, and there’s no question about how much you want to do all the work again after succeeding 7 times before. It’s called complacency.

That’s why dominance comes to an end. Was Andy cowell as passionate about his engine the last year as he was the first years he won with them? Doubt he cared as much just before he left.

I’m sure the Honda engineers who never got a title worked extra dedicated and hard to pursue that title. No complacency. Can’t say the same didn’t happen with Mercedes’ engine last season..

I did write:

or/and had the better car/team

.

Sex is a weird comparison because if anything one would want more not less after getting laid, as you put it.

Didn’t say you can’t want more. Is verstappen or Hamilton retiring after their first title? … no. But are they as desperate? No. As verstappen put it he’s more relaxed and anything extra is a bonus. Because he’s satisfied his drive to have a championship title.

[Gillian]

Yeah.. has nothing to do with where the strategists make calls on tracks, package and how effective your equipment is.

And it’s kinda like saying, a horny virgin who never got laid, pursues his first and best opportunity no more determined and motivated as someone that’s been there done that 7 times and already moved on to be focused on a number of other things outside of formula 1.

In battle you need to push yourself to. Get the absolute maximum every time. It takes alot of work, it’s not as simple as pulling the visor down and driving. Have you prepared as much, do you feel like putting in all the blood sweat and tears into workout, simulator time, the tedious parts you,don’t want to do anymore because you’ve done it before (maybe enough times) incase it might increase some statistical tally even though it won’t make you champion like it did for the first time again.

This is also bearing in mind the circumstance that the car was very difficult to work with and required extra hard work to extract results out of it.. because some rule changes made it difficult to work well out of the box and set up.

Put a younger whipper snapper who is ‘desperate’ to get in his first girl and have a right go at it ( a championship grabbing car) for the first time, and there’s no question about how much you want to do all the work again after succeeding 7 times before. It’s called complacency.

That’s why dominance comes to an end. Was Andy cowell as passionate about his engine the last year as he was the first years he won with them? Doubt he cared as much just before he left.

I’m sure the Honda engineers who never got a title worked extra dedicated and hard to pursue that title. No complacency. Can’t say the same didn’t happen with Mercedes’ engine last season..

I did write:

or/and had the better car/team

.

Sex is a weird comparison because if anything one would want more not less after getting laid, as you put it.

Didn’t say you can’t want more. Is verstappen or Hamilton retiring after their first title? … no. But are they as desperate? No. As verstappen put it he’s more relaxed and anything extra is a bonus. Because he’s satisfied his drive to have a championship title.

There's a distinction between wanting more and motivation? Having not a title makes a driver desperate and that's a good thing? You did claim that NOT having title might give an edge when battling someone who does have one.

It's rubbish. Just like it was rubbish saying Hamilton has an edge over Verstappen laat year because of his titles. If anything having a good car/team motivates or driving circles around your team mate. Having zero, one or seven titles doesn't change a thing in that.

Feel free to disagree, I'll leave it at that.