Mercedes W13

[Vanja #66]

can you elaborate further on why a team can get on top of that type of issue?

They'll just get to learn about suspension and overall setup with laps on track and massive simulator work. Also, the aero side of their issues will get better as well as they learn about their car. They are 8x WCC, 7x WDC team in the last 8 years, they have huge resources and this nothing they can't eventually handle quickly. My own suspicions are they are bluffing even now and will be up there in the race, but even if it takes them as much as 2-3 races to sort out, they will.

Would there be any discernible difference in pressure above the diffuser between the Ferrari and Mercedes concept?

I'd say on top you could have coeff. of pressure (Cp) peaks of 0.1-0.2 at most. Not including area ahead of the beam wing of course. Bellow, peaks could go as low as -3, maybe even -4. That's a difference of 20-30 times. So I don't think any two cars out there have too big of a Cp difference on top of the floor.

[morefirejules08]

can you elaborate further on why a team can get on top of that type of issue?

They'll just get to learn about suspension and overall setup with laps on track and massive simulator work. Also, the aero side of their issues will get better as well as they learn about their car. They are 8x WCC, 7x WDC team in the last 8 years, they have huge resources and this nothing they can't eventually handle quickly. My own suspicions are they are bluffing even now and will be up there in the race, but even if it takes them as much as 2-3 races to sort out, they will.

Would there be any discernible difference in pressure above the diffuser between the Ferrari and Mercedes concept?

I'd say on top you could have coeff. of pressure (Cp) peaks of 0.1-0.2 at most. Not including area ahead of the beam wing of course. Bellow, peaks could go as low as -3, maybe even -4. That's a difference of 20-30 times. So I don't think any two cars out there have too big of a Cp difference on top of the floor.

What makes you think they are bluffing?

[InsaneX_Badger]

Even with the porpoising issues. The car won't be fast enough to challenge RB, Hamilton was quoted to say RB was 0.8-0.9 tenths faster and Ferrari also half a second ahead. Deficits like that won't fall within a season. Can see from 5 races in that the team will scrap and focus on next season.

[Neuron]

Jumping as hell...

[izzy]

What makes you think they are bluffing?

If they're bluffing the sign is in the top speeds, which just looked as though all the Mercedes engines had been turned down because they have to last so long, and last year they showed a big correlation between performance settings and life didn't they.

So tomorrow they could run a mm more ride height, new dampers, change the natural frequency, a lot more power, and look quite different. Maybe. I'm not to hopeful, but I haven't given up either.

[Nano4k]

all merc engined cars where slow in free practice? if you just look at the list

[chrisc90]

Whats changed on the PU this year compared to last apart from the fuel?

Theres still the bouncing that has to be dealt with which will only get worse the faster you go. I cant see it not getting better if they go 290kmh instead of 275kmh.

[AR3-GP]

What makes you think they are bluffing?

If they're bluffing the sign is in the top speeds, which just looked as though all the Mercedes engines had been turned down because they have to last so long, and last year they showed a big correlation between performance settings and life didn't they.

So tomorrow they could run a mm more ride height, new dampers, change the natural frequency, a lot more power, and look quite different. Maybe. I'm not to hopeful, but I haven't given up either.

Can't recall where I read it, but it was reported that last season the issue was engine knock. I assume this unwanted combustion degraded the cylinder.

[matteosc]

can you elaborate further on why a team can get on top of that type of issue?

They'll just get to learn about suspension and overall setup with laps on track and massive simulator work. Also, the aero side of their issues will get better as well as they learn about their car. They are 8x WCC, 7x WDC team in the last 8 years, they have huge resources and this nothing they can't eventually handle quickly. My own suspicions are they are bluffing even now and will be up there in the race, but even if it takes them as much as 2-3 races to sort out, they will.

I think that they are not bluffing at all and that they are having real issues. That said, they will probably be a little closer tomorrow and close the gap significantly after few races (as you said). But contrary to the previous 8 years, they cannot pour in a huge amount of resources anymore.

[shamyakovic]

can you elaborate further on why a team can get on top of that type of issue?

They'll just get to learn about suspension and overall setup with laps on track and massive simulator work. Also, the aero side of their issues will get better as well as they learn about their car. They are 8x WCC, 7x WDC team in the last 8 years, they have huge resources and this nothing they can't eventually handle quickly. My own suspicions are they are bluffing even now and will be up there in the race, but even if it takes them as much as 2-3 races to sort out, they will.

I think that they are not bluffing at all and that they are having real issues. That said, they will probably be a little closer tomorrow and close the gap significantly after few races (as you said). But contrary to the previous 8 years, they cannot pour in a huge amount of resources anymore.

Even last year they had a budget gap (just 5million extra compared to 2022)
They also had limited CFD and wind tunnel restrictions just like this year

[matteosc]

They'll just get to learn about suspension and overall setup with laps on track and massive simulator work. Also, the aero side of their issues will get better as well as they learn about their car. They are 8x WCC, 7x WDC team in the last 8 years, they have huge resources and this nothing they can't eventually handle quickly. My own suspicions are they are bluffing even now and will be up there in the race, but even if it takes them as much as 2-3 races to sort out, they will.

I think that they are not bluffing at all and that they are having real issues. That said, they will probably be a little closer tomorrow and close the gap significantly after few races (as you said). But contrary to the previous 8 years, they cannot pour in a huge amount of resources anymore.

Even last year they had a budget gap.

OK, 7 years out of 8, and last year it was the most challenging they had since 2014. Also, I was answered to what highlighted in the quote above.

[shamyakovic]

I think that they are not bluffing at all and that they are having real issues. That said, they will probably be a little closer tomorrow and close the gap significantly after few races (as you said). But contrary to the previous 8 years, they cannot pour in a huge amount of resources anymore.

Even last year they had a budget gap.

OK, 7 years out of 8, and last year it was the most challenging they had since 2014. Also, I was answered to what highlighted in the quote above.

So the limited resource and money didn't affect them in 2021 with their development
So what you are saying may not be true, they can indeed develop without the huge amount of money and resource.

[AeroDynamic]

Andrew Shovlin

Our first session made use of the fact that we had two cars for the first time this year and chose to run them in different specifications. That was a useful test and we got a clear read on which setup and floor specification was best for the bouncing. However, we’re still struggling to get the rear of the car much lower and trying to do that gave the drivers a fairly bumpy time of it in the second session. In terms of pace, we have a significant gap to Ferrari and Red Bull, especially Max on the long run. There are some relatively easy gains we might be able to make overnight with the balance but we’re not going to find more than a few tenths. More important is that we keep learning as we don’t seem to have understood the bouncing as well as some of the others, it may also be that we’re lacking a bit of car pace. So, we’re expecting a tough couple of days where we need to focus on damage limitation but also continuing to experiment to see if we can find a better place to run the car.

[djones]

There will be 100 ways around the spending restrictions. For a start, all you have to do is pay a supplier to develop something then buy it cheaply.

It's pretty clear to see glimpses of a very fast car, it just has a fault they need to fix. Once that is fixed (at maximum it will take 3 races) they will be right up there again.

As for the engine.... that will still be class-leading, to think the fuel has all of a sudden made them the worst engine is just silly.

[AeroDynamic]

people are so eager to make conclusions after practice. lets at least wait until after qualy and ideally the race to get a read of what we have seen up till now. there's a few variables on the table to blow through before making meaningful assertions.