2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Emag]

Lando: “We've got a lot of pace to find if we want to be competitive with any of the guys in the top 10.”

So, from having one of - if not the most balanced cars on track at Barcelona, to struggling to get to Q3 now? What the hell happened? At Barcelona the paddock hyped the possibility of seeing McLaren back as a championship contender. Last week it went down already to fighting Mercedes for 3rd, which seemed realistic. Today, Lando’s prospect is we aren’t even top 5 material. What will it be tomorrow? Fighting Williams? After all the tough years we had, it seemed we were progressing back to the front where we belong. I am very disappointed after all the buzz that was created and I dragged myself along with. Hopeful we can turn this around, but I need to let it sink in for a moment because I am not ready to be celebrating P10’s anymore like during the Honda times. I expect more now. And I think the team should be expecting the fans to expect more as well, if we’re ever to be a top team again. Coming up with excuses and accepting this performance, is accepting mediocrity for the foreseeable future. Williams 2.0 will be our fate then.

I doubt anyone would be celebrating P10s anymore. If they are back to that level, I will just focus on the fight in front and ignore them for a while.

[SmallSoldier]

Just as a reference (I’m not saying that history will repeat itself, since they are of course very different tracks/situations)… The following were the simulations from Formula1.com for the Emilia Romagna weekend, not only did Lando almost put it in P2 after Qualy… He finished 3rd in that race:





Let’s be patient wait and see how the weekend goes… Friday doesn’t tell the whole story, nor does one GP a season make.

[Emag]

If slow speed corners are a huge weakness, then maybe next week in saudi arabia will be better.

[Darth-Piekus]

I am not sure how to react. Personally I am hoping that tommorow we see McLaren really turning up the engine and surprising everyone but seeing all this negativity here makes me think that there is an actual huge fundamental problem with the whole organization.

[Mclarensenna]

Not only Toyota. There are various examples in all of F1 history and also various examples of teams that were not on the top 3 in terms of money and yet won a championship or two.

Please list every single team from the last 30 years were a low budget team won the constructors championship?

[Darth-Piekus]

Benetton, Brawn GP, Renault are the 3 teams that did it. You came a little late though as I am not interested on this topic anymore.I care seeing McLaren tomorrow turning up the engine and shutting up all these naysayers. If that won't happen then there is a huge mistake with the whole organization.

[Vaexa]

Benetton, Brawn GP, Renault are the 3 teams that did it. You came a little late though as I am not interested on this topic anymore.I care seeing McLaren tomorrow turning up the engine and shutting up all these naysayers. If that won't happen then there is a huge mistake with the whole organization.

BGP001 had the sort of money, time and people thrown at it that would make even modern day Mercedes and Ferrari blush. It's hardly the scrappy underdog that just read the regulations harder that it's often made out to be.

Benetton/Renault (both Team Enstone) had serious investment behind them as well. These weren't just plucky privateers, these were big, well-funded teams that had works engine arrangements.

[Mclarensenna]

Benetton, Brawn GP, Renault are the 3 teams that did it. You came a little late though as I am not interested on this topic anymore.I care seeing McLaren tomorrow turning up the engine and shutting up all these naysayers. If that won't happen then there is a huge mistake with the whole organization.

Please list the years these 3 teams did it? I would just like to check into this further as its an interesting topic

[Darth-Piekus]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... n-bites-fl

Look at the bottom the budgets of each team and think again. Source Formula money.

[runningmanz]

Very surprised by our lack of pace so far. Anything less than battling out for the 3rd this year is a failure, however thats not meeting the target really of closing the gap to the front. Still its very early days with alot of development to come on these cars. I can't understand though how solid we were at Barcelona esp that fast day 1 time and then Lando pulling a 1:33.1 on C2's on the last day at Bahrain testing on a rough lap and then seeing how poor we were first day this weekend. Surely we can find a decent chunk of time for qualli tomorrow, I just can't believe after what we saw leading up to this weekend that we are this slow. The car seems to bottom out more than any others though, maybe to assist with the porpoising and stability? Wonder if that is slowing us to an extent though? Need to redouble our efforts and figure out what the hell is going on.

[Darth-Piekus]

Benetton, Brawn GP, Renault are the 3 teams that did it. You came a little late though as I am not interested on this topic anymore.I care seeing McLaren tomorrow turning up the engine and shutting up all these naysayers. If that won't happen then there is a huge mistake with the whole organization.

Please list the years these 3 teams did it? I would just like to check into this further as its an interesting topic

Benetton in 1994 and 1995, Renault in 2005 and 2006, Brawn GP in 2009.

[Vaexa]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... n-bites-fl

Look at the bottom the budgets of each team and think again. Source Formula money.

It is very important to recognise that most of the development work on BGP001 was done throughout 2008, not just 2009, and that Honda had an approximately $400mil budget that year, behind only Ferrari, McLaren and Toyota. Two of these teams threw the lion's share of their annual budget in 2008 at their championship battle that year and the third was Toyota.

It wasn't designed on the spare change in Ross Brawn's back pocket, and it certainly wasn't a case of one team just magically reading the regulations harder to beat the big players.

[Mclarensenna]

Benetton, Brawn GP, Renault are the 3 teams that did it. You came a little late though as I am not interested on this topic anymore.I care seeing McLaren tomorrow turning up the engine and shutting up all these naysayers. If that won't happen then there is a huge mistake with the whole organization.

https://www.racefans.net/2008/09/22/toy ... get-4456m/
Toyota: $445.6m
McLaren: $433.3m
Ferrari: $414.9m
Honda: $398.1m
Lets start with Brawn. They were not a low budget team but extremely high budget. In 2008 they were actually Honda back then and spent a massive $398million. It is misleading to say not in the top 3. There is a huge difference with the 4th biggest team spending half what the top team spends in some years of say $200 million which is nowhere and spending just over 10% of the top team and $398 million with all the budgets very close.

Honda that year was very fast but the honda engine was a complete dud. Brawn said once he switched to the Merc engine in 2009 it was worth a second and went to the front of the field. So Honda would have most likely won the year before as well as the car was fast and the budget was there. It was the engine that was the anchor. So they high budget did make a very fast car.

Brawn 2009 also cements the theory that budget is king as in 2009 the budget dropped massively and brawn started off with a rocket car race 1 as it was developed under the huge honda budget the prior year, but by the end of the year the teams like redbull with huge budgets easily overtook them. Further cementing budget is king. Once budget was cut in 2009 the team went backwards so fast.

[Darth-Piekus]

Hondas car was nowhere near McLaren and Ferrari in 2008. I doubt the Mercedes would have changed that. While I never said that they were a low budget team they where not in the top 3. Toyota who had the biggest budget was beaten by both McLaren and Ferrari. Honda ended up 9th. Having a good budget did not translate in a good engine. In 2009 it took more than half the season for Red Bull to copy Ross Brawns double diffuser trick which made the difference in the end. Both Ferrari and McLaren failed to do anything significant with higher budgets.

My point is that a budget is not enough. You need to know how to use it.

Now this is the last time I am gonna talk about this non interesting topic. It would be wise to let it go.

[Mclarensenna]

Benetton, Brawn GP, Renault are the 3 teams that did it. You came a little late though as I am not interested on this topic anymore.I care seeing McLaren tomorrow turning up the engine and shutting up all these naysayers. If that won't happen then there is a huge mistake with the whole organization.

Please list the years these 3 teams did it? I would just like to check into this further as its an interesting topic

Benetton in 1994 and 1995, Renault in 2005 and 2006, Brawn GP in 2009.

Beneton i cannot find the budgets in 1994 1995 maybe somebody can help?

Also Renault 2005 and 2006 i also cannot find?

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47466

I did find the 2003 Renault budget a few years before and it was $257 million. Ferrari was the highest at $298 million that year. So renault was no backmarker low budget team. In todays money (19 years later) adding inflation this is a $500 million budget. This is absolutely massive!!!

Counting budgets by 6th biggest is completely useless really. As the 6th highest budget could be 10 % away from the top teams budget or it could be 50% away from the top team. You need to use percentages to the top to confirm if they are a high budget team, mid range budget or low budget team running on fumes and 1/4 the budget of the big boys. As every example i seen so far are not even mid range budgets but highly funded, high budget top tier teams. I am not aware of any team of the last 30 years winning that were not in the high budget category unless i missed something?