Bahrain GP 2009 - BIC

[Giblet]

A lot of the team that didn't go to Bahrain to test ended up testing in the rain quite a bit. The drivers must have forgotten what it is like to really push these cars on slicks.

[ISLAMATRON]

They push the cars the hardest in qualifying and all three quals so far have been dry.

[djos]

Id love to see the F1 Champoinship become a truly world championship again, with the guys going to Montreal and a USA circuit, for me id love to see the cars do 85 or 90 laps arround Laguna Seca or Watkins Glen. Id like to see a race in Mexico and Argentina as well. An African race arround Kyalami would be sweet. But untill that happens, some tracks will have to under go some modrenisation or Tilke-iseation and the cost of F1 will have to be reduced by such an ammount that we can have arround 20 to 22 races a year.

However, Bahrain will be the start of us getting the benchmark for the rest of the season, thats whats really intresting.

I'd luv to see them back and Montreal and in the USA Road America would be spectacluar - I dont think either Laguna Seca or Watkins glen are fast enuf circuits to produce a good F1 race.

The only problem is the greedy little evil dwarf and his outrageous demands - i mean seriously, events should cost no more than $10Million USD per year! [-X

[vasia]

Brawn, RBR and Toyota will be fighting at the front, but Toyota may have an advantage over RBR on this track as they tested extensively at Bahrain in winter.

Reliability is also a question mark with the Red Bull cars, and their reliability will be tested in the Bahrain heat.

I doubt their testing at Bahrain will help them overcome a the RB5's & BGP01's which are clearly in a class of their own.

RedBull said they solved the relability problem they had on Saturday night, it was a bad 4 pound drive-shaft boot seal batch.

The Toyotas were faster than the Red Bull cars in Malaysia. Trulli's Q2 Malaysia times were faster than Vettel's best as well as Webber's, and Glock was as fast as Webber and Vettel in Q2 Malaysia. Q3 Malaysia Trulli had a faster lap than Vettel despite the fact Trulli was heavier with fuel. Webber had almost identical fuel to both Toyotas, and both Toyotas in Q3 were faster than Webber. Trulli's fastest lap in the Malaysia race was faster than the fastest laps of both Red Bulls.

Clearly we can see the Brawn cars struggled a bit on the Shanghai circuit, particularly in rainy cold conditions. The RB5 excelled at the Shanghai circuit. In China, Trulli's Q3 time was 7 tenths off of Vettel's, but Trulli had 20kg more fuel on board, so with identical fuel their pace was close. Trulli's Q3 time was only 4 tenths off of Webber's time, and Webber had 18kg less fuel than Trulli. The rain changed everything. It looks like Trulli's car was not set-up very well and he had bad pace in the rain. Glock was absolutely flying in the rain. Glock had 3rd fastest lap in the race, virtually the same as Vettel's fastest lap and faster than Webber's fastest lap. At some points in the race Glock was lapping at the same pace as Vettel. There were only 4 cars in the China race that managed lap times in the 1:52 range, and it was the two Red Bulls, Ruben's Brawn, and Glock in the Toyota. If Glock had not started the race last from the pitlane, he would have seriously threatened both the Brawn cars as well as the Red Bull machines during the race.

As for reliability, I meant in general. Yes Red Bull did solve their drive-shaft issue, but the issue has cropped up apparently before. What I meant was that Red Bull could have other reliability issues in the dry heat of Bahrain. BMW and Ferrari have serious issues right now so their Bahrain winter testing experience will not help them much. Toyota though had very good reliability during the Bahrain testing, they did the most laps during testing, and they have a strong car right now. Toyota covered almost 4000 kilometres and over 700 laps during their winter test in Bahrain. That will definitely help them achieve an optimal set-up with their cars.

[jamsbong]

I would love to see a good fight for positions. It seems to me that the current cars can follow up to another readily. With or without KERS, there have been much more overtakings.

Except for the premature finish of Msia, This year F1 has been very exciting. Look forward to Bahrain.

My fav driver now is Vettel. I probably change my mind soon... but hey just for fun y'know.

[NDR008]

Brawn, RBR and Toyota will be fighting at the front, but Toyota may have an advantage over RBR on this track as they tested extensively at Bahrain in winter.

Reliability is also a question mark with the Red Bull cars, and their reliability will be tested in the Bahrain heat.

I doubt their testing at Bahrain will help them overcome a the RB5's & BGP01's which are clearly in a class of their own.

RedBull said they solved the relability problem they had on Saturday night, it was a bad 4 pound drive-shaft boot seal batch.

The Toyotas were faster than the Red Bull cars in Malaysia. Trulli's Q2 Malaysia times were faster than Vettel's best as well as Webber's, and Glock was as fast as Webber and Vettel in Q2 Malaysia. Q3 Malaysia Trulli had a faster lap than Vettel despite the fact Trulli was heavier with fuel. Webber had almost identical fuel to both Toyotas, and both Toyotas in Q3 were faster than Webber. Trulli's fastest lap in the Malaysia race was faster than the fastest laps of both Red Bulls.

Clearly we can see the Brawn cars struggled a bit on the Shanghai circuit, particularly in rainy cold conditions. The RB5 excelled at the Shanghai circuit. In China, Trulli's Q3 time was 7 tenths off of Vettel's, but Trulli had 20kg more fuel on board, so with identical fuel their pace was close. Trulli's Q3 time was only 4 tenths off of Webber's time, and Webber had 18kg less fuel than Trulli. The rain changed everything. It looks like Trulli's car was not set-up very well and he had bad pace in the rain. Glock was absolutely flying in the rain. Glock had 3rd fastest lap in the race, virtually the same as Vettel's fastest lap and faster than Webber's fastest lap. At some points in the race Glock was lapping at the same pace as Vettel. There were only 4 cars in the China race that managed lap times in the 1:52 range, and it was the two Red Bulls, Ruben's Brawn, and Glock in the Toyota. If Glock had not started the race last from the pitlane, he would have seriously threatened both the Brawn cars as well as the Red Bull machines during the race.

As for reliability, I meant in general. Yes Red Bull did solve their drive-shaft issue, but the issue has cropped up apparently before. What I meant was that Red Bull could have other reliability issues in the dry heat of Bahrain. BMW and Ferrari have serious issues right now so their Bahrain winter testing experience will not help them much. Toyota though had very good reliability during the Bahrain testing, they did the most laps during testing, and they have a strong car right now. Toyota covered almost 4000 kilometres and over 700 laps during their winter test in Bahrain. That will definitely help them achieve an optimal set-up with their cars.

I agree with you. I think Toyota is still the strongest force after BrawnGP - I find it funny how after one odd race such as that of China - starting in the rain - everyone has quickly swapped second favourites...

[paused]

Brawn, RBR and Toyota will be fighting at the front, but Toyota may have an advantage over RBR on this track as they tested extensively at Bahrain in winter.

Reliability is also a question mark with the Red Bull cars, and their reliability will be tested in the Bahrain heat.

I doubt their testing at Bahrain will help them overcome a the RB5's & BGP01's which are clearly in a class of their own.

RedBull said they solved the relability problem they had on Saturday night, it was a bad 4 pound drive-shaft boot seal batch.

The Toyotas were faster than the Red Bull cars in Malaysia. Trulli's Q2 Malaysia times were faster than Vettel's best as well as Webber's, and Glock was as fast as Webber and Vettel in Q2 Malaysia. Q3 Malaysia Trulli had a faster lap than Vettel despite the fact Trulli was heavier with fuel. Webber had almost identical fuel to both Toyotas, and both Toyotas in Q3 were faster than Webber. Trulli's fastest lap in the Malaysia race was faster than the fastest laps of both Red Bulls.

Clearly we can see the Brawn cars struggled a bit on the Shanghai circuit, particularly in rainy cold conditions. The RB5 excelled at the Shanghai circuit. In China, Trulli's Q3 time was 7 tenths off of Vettel's, but Trulli had 20kg more fuel on board, so with identical fuel their pace was close. Trulli's Q3 time was only 4 tenths off of Webber's time, and Webber had 18kg less fuel than Trulli. The rain changed everything. It looks like Trulli's car was not set-up very well and he had bad pace in the rain. Glock was absolutely flying in the rain. Glock had 3rd fastest lap in the race, virtually the same as Vettel's fastest lap and faster than Webber's fastest lap. At some points in the race Glock was lapping at the same pace as Vettel. There were only 4 cars in the China race that managed lap times in the 1:52 range, and it was the two Red Bulls, Ruben's Brawn, and Glock in the Toyota. If Glock had not started the race last from the pitlane, he would have seriously threatened both the Brawn cars as well as the Red Bull machines during the race.

As for reliability, I meant in general. Yes Red Bull did solve their drive-shaft issue, but the issue has cropped up apparently before. What I meant was that Red Bull could have other reliability issues in the dry heat of Bahrain. BMW and Ferrari have serious issues right now so their Bahrain winter testing experience will not help them much. Toyota though had very good reliability during the Bahrain testing, they did the most laps during testing, and they have a strong car right now. Toyota covered almost 4000 kilometres and over 700 laps during their winter test in Bahrain. That will definitely help them achieve an optimal set-up with their cars.

Hmmm. Coulda...woulda...shoulda. Common seriously. If every race or session was analysed by what people could have done we would have 10 WDC every season. The variability of what people actually do is what makes this sport interesting. How many times do you hear people say they did the perfect lap (apart from Lewis).

Since Toyota are already running a DDD I am sure RBR have much greater scope for improvement and will beat them over the course of this year.

[Giblet]

They push the cars the hardest in qualifying and all three quals so far have been dry.

True, unless you are speaking about tire management, which is half of it.

In quali you push as hard as you can and when they wear, you immediately get new ones. The drivers have had one dry race on F1 slicks in their entire careers.

Except Rubens, of course.

[vasia]

I agree with you. I think Toyota is still the strongest force after BrawnGP - I find it funny how after one odd race such as that of China - starting in the rain - everyone has quickly swapped second favourites...

It really is quite amusing how some are so quick to jump to conclusions without first fully looking at all the facts.

Hmmm. Coulda...woulda...shoulda. Common seriously. If every race or session was analysed by what people could have done we would have 10 WDC every season. The variability of what people actually do is what makes this sport interesting. How many times do you hear people say they did the perfect lap (apart from Lewis).

Since Toyota are already running a DDD I am sure RBR have much greater scope for improvement and will beat them over the course of this year.

My response was in regards to what djos said about the Brawn and RB5 being "clearly in a class of their own". The Brawn currently is, that is correct. The RB5 clearly is NOT in a class of it's own. It's also not in the same class as the Brawn. Maybe in the rain it is in the same class, or slightly better. All anyone has to do is bother to take a look at the race data. Bahrain shall give us a better picture exactly where the RB5 stands.

http://fialive.fiacommunications.com/en ... alysis.pdf

http://fialive.fiacommunications.com/en ... istory.pdf

http://fialive.fiacommunications.com/en ... ectors.pdf

Looking at the race lap analysis, Glock was right there with the Red Bulls and Brawns in terms of pace. Also keep in mind Glock had to fight with much more traffic, and as a result more spray than the Red Bull or Brawn cars. This slowed down Glock during much of the race. In clear air with no traffic, Glock managed laps as fast as Vettel or Webber. In clean air, Glock achieved the fastest sector 2 time of all in the race.

Also considering that Shanghai is not a circuit that typically suits Toyota, and considering Glock started from the pitlane I would say they didn't do that bad at all.

Bahrain is all about braking, traction, and stability/balance in the low-speed and medium speed corners. Toyota updated their suspension in China for improved low-speed traction, which is exactly what is needed in Bahrain. It should be an interesting race weekend for sure. Toyota getting the Bahrain race win would sure silence a lot of Red Bull bandwagon jumpers.

Toyota so far has had better reliability than Red Bull, so nothing is for certain yet. To win a race (or to score points), you first have to finish the race. Just ask Ferrari about that, or Red Bull about last season. Also there is no guarantee that Red Bull has greater scope for development in terms of the diffuser since they are modifying an existing car design to work with a new diffuser concept. Toyota's car from the ground up was designed to work with their trick diffuser.

[paused]

Tadashi-San

Errr I wasn't trying to start www3 but just pointing out that sector times / more or less spray / clean air don't necessarily make a race. I am not definitively saying whether RBR or Toyota are better or worse at this stage but splitting race components to the nth degree won't decide one way or another. What will count is race results in the longer term...

Also there is no guarantee that Red Bull has greater scope for development in terms of the diffuser since they are modifying an existing car design to work with a new diffuser concept. Toyota's car from the ground up was designed to work with their trick diffuser.

I think you would find that every non DDD technical director on the grid would disagree. Otherwise what was the point of the last month if there is no extra downforce to be gained? Logically if you already have a DDD then those without it have more scope to find extra downforce if relation to current level thereby improving comparitive performance.

[WhiteBlue]

I would love to see more podiums for Vettel, but it will be much harder in the dry as people have already pointed out. The Newey solution for the double diffusor isn't due on the car before Monaco so un til then they will probably fall back a bit behind their early performance as other teams will have their updates earlier.

Toyota and Williams could be strong in Bahrain, with Toyota profiting from their testing. So I expect Timo stronger than Nico.

[WhiteBlue]

Welcome to 1st practise. Installation laps are done.

[CMSMJ1]

Yes, working from home and able to watch it too...

Macca with flow vis paint under the left hand side of the car

[xpensive]

Good morning gentlemen,
Me at home too, this will be a good day.

[Vasco]

Something interesting from Robert Kubica in the press conference:

"We go to the factory, of course, but I think the problem for everybody is known, so you don’t need additional input from the driver. We don’t have simulators, so there will be no simulation but of course we try to help the team as much as we can from the driver point of view but as I said, I think the problem is known by everybody and there is no need for additional meetings or things like that."

Quite surprised that BMW don't have any simulators.....