Ferrari F1-75

[dialtone]

Posted this in the GP topic:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/vv-d ... onless.png

Fastest lap from LEC and VER in the race.

I suppose there's 2 ways to read this:
1) LEC had plenty left in the car to go faster if he wanted/needed, through the race he was always recovering energy at the end of straights, I didn't see much of the same from VER actually except main straight. This would lead me to believe that the race was never really in danger.

another way of
2) VER's engine is capable of recovering energy without hurting top speed as much. This would seem a bit more unrealistic, but of course would be a big plus in Jeddah if it's there.

Anyway F1-75 carries a lot of speed through T6-7 and T12 compared to RB-18, I think this shows that RB-18 was generating less downforce which caused their tire deg to increase.

IMHO RB-18 is a great car, but F1-75 is marginally better in a bunch of areas that allows it to sacrifice less to compromises.

I'm curious, how is the graph generated? Do you have the raw data? Can you generate a graph that just shows the delta?

The graph above I generated using https://www.f1-tempo.com/ but you can generate those graphs yourself with https://github.com/theOehrly/Fast-F1 I'm writing my own script when I have a few minutes on the side to automatically detect corners from telemetry and calculate min/average cornering speed and other things that f1-tempo doesn't do (also I discovered f1-tempo existed after I had already started).

Telemetry is taken from the race files that formula 1 releases at the end of the sessions, they aren't perfect but I think they still have 4-5Hz frequency, so about 300-400 points per lap. I think the teams have access to 200Hz or somesuch. 4-5Hz frequency means it's harder to properly get brake points, minimum speeds in corner, and generally whenever you work with that data there are going to be small alignment issues, together with the complete lack of track information in the file (where are the corners, apex, DRS zones and so on).

So far telemetry has never lied and has been the best predictor of everything I've seen in the race since testing, even with RedBull fuel issue maybe related with battery instead is actually very easily viewable in the telemetry. Pretty cool.

[AR3-GP]

Posted this in the GP topic:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/vv-d ... onless.png

Fastest lap from LEC and VER in the race.

I suppose there's 2 ways to read this:
1) LEC had plenty left in the car to go faster if he wanted/needed, through the race he was always recovering energy at the end of straights, I didn't see much of the same from VER actually except main straight. This would lead me to believe that the race was never really in danger.

another way of
2) VER's engine is capable of recovering energy without hurting top speed as much. This would seem a bit more unrealistic, but of course would be a big plus in Jeddah if it's there.

Anyway F1-75 carries a lot of speed through T6-7 and T12 compared to RB-18, I think this shows that RB-18 was generating less downforce which caused their tire deg to increase.

IMHO RB-18 is a great car, but F1-75 is marginally better in a bunch of areas that allows it to sacrifice less to compromises.

Not all cars are at the minimum weight so the cornering deficit and tire deg is not wholly a result of downforce.

AFAIK Ferrari and RedBull were both considered overweight, RedBull by about 5-10kg more than Ferrari. Now people say RedBull lost 7-10kg since testing so it's probably on the same level with Ferrari. But nobody really provided much proof of this aside from some rumors.

The comment about RB being 10kg more than Ferrari came during the Bahrain weekend, not the testing weekend. We know Ferrari aren't at min weight because they haven't come out and claimed it (or admitted to split turbo, but that's for another thread ).

[S D]

Posted this in the GP topic:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/vv-d ... onless.png

Fastest lap from LEC and VER in the race.

I suppose there's 2 ways to read this:
1) LEC had plenty left in the car to go faster if he wanted/needed, through the race he was always recovering energy at the end of straights, I didn't see much of the same from VER actually except main straight. This would lead me to believe that the race was never really in danger.

another way of
2) VER's engine is capable of recovering energy without hurting top speed as much. This would seem a bit more unrealistic, but of course would be a big plus in Jeddah if it's there.

Anyway F1-75 carries a lot of speed through T6-7 and T12 compared to RB-18, I think this shows that RB-18 was generating less downforce which caused their tire deg to increase.

IMHO RB-18 is a great car, but F1-75 is marginally better in a bunch of areas that allows it to sacrifice less to compromises.

I'm curious, how is the graph generated? Do you have the raw data? Can you generate a graph that just shows the delta?

The graph above I generated using https://www.f1-tempo.com/ but you can generate those graphs yourself with https://github.com/theOehrly/Fast-F1 I'm writing my own script when I have a few minutes on the side to automatically detect corners from telemetry and calculate min/average cornering speed and other things that f1-tempo doesn't do (also I discovered f1-tempo existed after I had already started).

Telemetry is taken from the race files that formula 1 releases at the end of the sessions, they aren't perfect but I think they still have 4-5Hz frequency, so about 300-400 points per lap. I think the teams have access to 200Hz or somesuch. 4-5Hz frequency means it's harder to properly get brake points, minimum speeds in corner, and generally whenever you work with that data there are going to be small alignment issues, together with the complete lack of track information in the file (where are the corners, apex, DRS zones and so on).

So far telemetry has never lied and has been the best predictor of everything I've seen in the race since testing, even with RedBull fuel issue maybe related with battery instead is actually very easily viewable in the telemetry. Pretty cool.

Very nice. To me seeing the data flat with just the delta would tell me different things that are not obvious when looking at the actual numbers. The view could also be exploded as well.
Thanks

[dialtone]

Not all cars are at the minimum weight so the cornering deficit and tire deg is not wholly a result of downforce.

AFAIK Ferrari and RedBull were both considered overweight, RedBull by about 5-10kg more than Ferrari. Now people say RedBull lost 7-10kg since testing so it's probably on the same level with Ferrari. But nobody really provided much proof of this aside from some rumors.

The comment about RB being 10kg more than Ferrari came during the Bahrain weekend, not the testing weekend. We know Ferrari aren't at min weight because they haven't come out and claimed it (or admitted to split turbo, but that's for another thread ).

This is easily easily verifiable you know...
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ot ... o/8725227/
viewtopic.php?p=1039565#p1039565

Date is 5th of march so during Bahrain testing week.

[AR3-GP]

AFAIK Ferrari and RedBull were both considered overweight, RedBull by about 5-10kg more than Ferrari. Now people say RedBull lost 7-10kg since testing so it's probably on the same level with Ferrari. But nobody really provided much proof of this aside from some rumors.

The comment about RB being 10kg more than Ferrari came during the Bahrain weekend, not the testing weekend. We know Ferrari aren't at min weight because they haven't come out and claimed it (or admitted to split turbo, but that's for another thread ).

This is easily easily verifiable you know...
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ot ... o/8725227/
viewtopic.php?p=1039565#p1039565

Date is 5th of march so during Bahrain testing week.

I don't think we are talking about the same things but it's the Ferrari thread so I won't add much more.

[dialtone]

The comment about RB being 10kg more than Ferrari came during the Bahrain weekend, not the testing weekend. We know Ferrari aren't at min weight because they haven't come out and claimed it (or admitted to split turbo, but that's for another thread ).

This is easily easily verifiable you know...
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ot ... o/8725227/
viewtopic.php?p=1039565#p1039565

Date is 5th of march so during Bahrain testing week.

I don't think we are talking about the same things but it's the Ferrari thread so I won't add much more.

Happy to switch to PMs if you prefer, I don't have any animosity, would actually like to understand what you mean.

[mzso]

Wondering if the Ferrari/FIA agreement sealed at the end of 2020 contained anything about the fuel? Perhaps running on E10 in 2021 already? They seem to tackle the new fuel way better than Merc and Honda.

Doesn't make sense. ethanol is less energetic than petrol. They just threw a lot of resources at it, probably. Their PU was inferior, the budget cap hit which freed up a lot of resources for engine development. And with the engine freeze coming it makes sense to put efforts into developing it.

[mzso]

Regarding the F1-75... great first race. Great on the tyres, no serious brake heating issues, good power, good slow speed cornering, good downforce, the only (possible) weakness could be in the hybrid, and we have until September to improve there. Seems like we're on the right path so far.

What?
It looks spectacularly bad compared to Red Bull in the side by side video. Leclerc looses massive chunks of time. I never even saw loosing that much time in single brake zones on these comparison videos before.

[AR3-GP]

Brake zone, and slow speed corner are two different things imo.

[timoth]

Regarding the F1-75... great first race. Great on the tyres, no serious brake heating issues, good power, good slow speed cornering, good downforce, the only (possible) weakness could be in the hybrid, and we have until September to improve there. Seems like we're on the right path so far.

What?
It looks spectacularly bad compared to Red Bull in the side by side video. Leclerc looses massive chunks of time. I never even saw loosing that much time in single brake zones on these comparison videos before.
https://youtu.be/Oe8ucnyNUgs?t=39

It's the way charles drove this weekend. If you compare his laps in qualifying to Carlos, he was always losing 1 or 2 tenth to Carlos in sector one, in 1st and 2nd corner, but he could recover it in 2nd and 3rd sector. If he had pushed the rear tires so much in 1st sector, he would've overcooked the rear tires for 3rd sector. That's exactly how he got that 1 tenth in last corner in 3rd sector compared to Max and Carlos. Look at the last corner, Max hasn't just enough rear tire for last corner and loses 1 tenth there.

You either have to carry more speed in the corner and have compromise exit, or carry less speed in the corner and have a better exit. Charles did the latter and it clearly paid off.

[codetower]

Regarding the F1-75... great first race. Great on the tyres, no serious brake heating issues, good power, good slow speed cornering, good downforce, the only (possible) weakness could be in the hybrid, and we have until September to improve there. Seems like we're on the right path so far.

What?
It looks spectacularly bad compared to Red Bull in the side by side video. Leclerc looses massive chunks of time. I never even saw loosing that much time in single brake zones on these comparison videos before.
https://youtu.be/Oe8ucnyNUgs?t=39

Were they the best at slow speed cornering? Probably not. But they weren’t bad. My point was that they have a very well balanced car at this point in time, and it appears to be performing well at all the points I mentioned (even if they aren’t the best in each). As a fan I am pleased and excited for the season. The F1 75 looks like a really good car with lots of potential.

[mzso]

Brake zone, and slow speed corner are two different things imo.

Not really. If you can only take the turn slower you need to brake more and go down to lower speeds.

You either have to carry more speed in the corner and have compromise exit, or carry less speed in the corner and have a better exit. Charles did the latter and it clearly paid off.

I guess. Though he doesn't get back the time on exit. He ends up with a loss and and only gains in fast turns.

[vorticism]

What would you say is the ratio between louver exit to cannon exit? 50/50?

All it takes to have a top American, Chinese, South African or any country team... Is lots of money and making a good environment to attract the right people. Haas could have turned to a Russian team overnight, and Alfa Romeo can turn to a Chinese team of the money it right.

Of course Haas would then have been Russian in name only, having only one Russian employee on the roster. And then is he ethnically Russian or just legally Russian. Same for your other example, it would be Chinese in name only. Various people could participate in F1, the question is why would they? Why obsess over a European sport? Why appropriate European cultures specifically? In sixty years those who partook of this cultural franchising will call it colonialism and rail against it.

[Andi76]

If I remember correctly, the E10 was supposed to be introduced in 2021 anyway, regardless of their agreement with FIA. And they way I read what they announced back then, is that Ferrari will pay for the R&D of fuels to be used after E10.

Now as you say it - thats exactly what the agreement said. But i am pretty sure it was also part of that agreement that Ferrari not only pays but also helps in R&D.

[PlatinumZealot]

https://i.imgur.com/eH19C1E.jpg

All it takes to have a top American, Chinese, South African or any country team... Is lots of money and making a good environment to attract the right people. Haas could have turned to a Russian team overnight, and Alfa Romeo can turn to a Chinese team of the money it right.

Of course Haas would then have been Russian in name only, having only one Russian employee on the roster. And then is he ethnically Russian or just legally Russian. Same for your other example, it would be Chinese in name only. Various people could participate in F1, the question is why would they? Why obsess over a European sport? Why appropriate European cultures specifically? In sixty years those who partook of this cultural franchising will call it colonialism and rail against it.

Wait a minute now. Where the people in the team come from don't matter anymore because of globalization. Mercedes is a German funded team in England. Haas is an American funded team in Italy hell it might only have a few Americans in there. Force India was an Indian team.

If you are looking at the people in the teams, the automobile was invented in Europe due to various pressures like industrialization, trade and universities and workshops filled with bright minds. These conditions now exists everywhere. So you can see great chinese, African engineers in F1 if they get the right exposure to it.

Asia now makes some of the best cars now and long gone are the times when they had to copy ideas from the Americans and Europeans.
Microchips were once an American thing, now the best chips are designed and manufactured in Taiwan and South Korea. It's all down to the environment.

Formula 1 is a European sport, with European culture and Europeans, now owned by Americans, we know that. It is watched in some countries but not watched much in others. So I don't know why you say others are obsessed with European culture? A person might just be fascinated with motorsport or is an Engineer and wants to ply his skills in the environment. Or they could be an Indian billionaire that wants to buy a team. In the same way actors all over the world travel to Hollywood to get that American culture, or millions of little kids watch japanese cartoons and play Japanese videogames. Doesn't have to be an obsession. People can go places and buy whatever they want because of globalization.