Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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I wonder if the people who don't like run-off areas also enjoy when, for example, a 24 hour endurance race has hours and hours of full course yellow or red flags just to repair the barriers when there is a crash.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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I think people also forget when a driver could out brake himself, when trying an overtake for example, only to end up beached in a gravel trap. Race over. Is that what people want to return to? Seems a lot of punishment for trying to overtake.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Hoffman900
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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DiogoBrand wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 14:34
I wonder if the people who don't like run-off areas also enjoy when, for example, a 24 hour endurance race has hours and hours of full course yellow or red flags just to repair the barriers when there is a crash.
I mean they could just watch oval racing or someone skewer themself at the Isle of Man TT / other road circuits.

I’m a big fan of motorcycle racing and my dad did it and I raced on dirt. I think it’s still the purest form. Limited pit wall communication, you can see the riders fighting, not affected by dirty aero, you are penalized for a mistake by crashing (usually not serious), etc.

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S E C T I O
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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Courage was once a discriminating factor between pilots, think of Tazio, of Gilles. Now rightly no one wants to see death anymore, but it is right that mistakes are paid for, not with life, but with some losses.Furthermore pilots was very respectful and fair to each other,even facilitating overtaking and indicating where to pass in dangerous situations, they would be ashamed of a driver hindering an opponent to favor the teammate.Today is now forgotten.
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Hoffman900
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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S E C T I O wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 15:09
Courage was once a discriminating factor between pilots, think of Tazio, of Gilles. Now rightly no one wants to see death anymore, but it is right that mistakes are paid for, not with life, but with some losses.Furthermore pilots was very respectful and fair to each other,even facilitating overtaking and indicating where to pass in dangerous situations, they would be ashamed of a driver hindering an opponent to favor the teammate.Today is now forgotten.
It still is.

I challenge any of you to race around Spa (in real life) in anything faster than a MX-5 and let me know how that goes.

They also weren’t exactly respectful or fair.

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S E C T I O
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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When it came time to show courage, almost everyone would have called it stupidity, but I trusted my expertise, now I am here alive and not hurt, maybe just luck.I like to drive both cars and motorcycles, even if I think I'm stronger in cars and, of course, sometimes I was wrong. Who didn't? Fortunately what I paid was not in my body. What do you mean by the last sentence? The language does not help me and despite having little knowledge of races prior to the 70s for obvious reasons,I am not aware of incorrect behavior made in those times.But i'm glad to learn.
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vorticism
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 10:15
vorticism wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 01:36
Every driver jumped into a car pre-halo era. And pre roll hoop era. And pre crash structure era. And pre seat belts era. Etc. I think it's coming more from teams and organizers who have more to lose financially and may be more risk averse than your average racing driver.
The drivers themselves ask for safety changes today, so it's not just the organisations being liability averse.

I don't understand why some spectators are happy, or even desire, to see drivers get injured or killed.
Do you ever tire of reminding people of your moral superiority? Heavy is the crown surely. No one is advocating for that ITT.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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vorticism wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 18:27
Just_a_fan wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 10:15
vorticism wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 01:36
Every driver jumped into a car pre-halo era. And pre roll hoop era. And pre crash structure era. And pre seat belts era. Etc. I think it's coming more from teams and organizers who have more to lose financially and may be more risk averse than your average racing driver.
The drivers themselves ask for safety changes today, so it's not just the organisations being liability averse.

I don't understand why some spectators are happy, or even desire, to see drivers get injured or killed.
Do you ever tire of reminding people of your moral superiority? Heavy is the crown surely. No one is advocating for that ITT.
Nope. It's a heavy crown but one I enjoy wearing, thanks. 8)
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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S E C T I O
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 14:49
I think people also forget when a driver could out brake himself, when trying an overtake for example, only to end up beached in a gravel trap. Race over. Is that what people want to return to? Seems a lot of punishment for trying to overtake.
Today race over, there is. A time perhaps life is over. What do we want to see attempts or decisions? Putting your life, or your career on the line, is different from simply playing sports.
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dans79
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 14:49
I think people also forget when a driver could out brake himself, when trying an overtake for example, only to end up beached in a gravel trap. Race over. Is that what people want to return to? Seems a lot of punishment for trying to overtake.
I think a lot of people think they want that, right up to the point it happens to their team or driver of choice.
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JordanMugen
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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Hoffman900 wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 15:26
I challenge any of you to race around Spa (in real life) in anything faster than a MX-5 and let me know how that goes.
I'd still be frightened about an MX5, especially an NA model road car without a roll cage on a track day. Those things (and most 80's/90's cars you might take to a track day) have little to no crashworthiness by modern standards. :|

Integrated roll-over-protection systems are certainly a big bonus of modern vehicles. Obviously, if Sir Frank Williams' Ford Sierra rental car had the reinforced A/B/C pillars of a modern Ford Mondeo, that would have saved him from injury when he rolled it over.

vorticism wrote:
23 Mar 2022, 01:36
Every driver jumped into a car pre-halo era. And pre roll hoop era. And pre crash structure era. And pre seat belts era. Etc.
Safety improves over time. That's how things work.

As you get older, don't you appreciate that things change?

I'm still salty that rock music (drums/bass/guitar of any kind) does not chart in the top 50 popular hits anymore, but it is what it is, for whatever reason (most) young people who (presumably) decide the popular hits don't like jangly guitars and drums anymore -- things change. We can just stick to our Artic Monkeys and Zutons pop rock tunes from 15 years ago (itself played on (mostly reissue) Fender guitars and amps dating from the 1950's, showing for how long rock 'n' roll was a relevant musical style -- just on 60 years, remaining relatively popular from the 1950's until long after the initial introduction of synthesisers in the 1970's and electronic dance music & hip-hop in the 1980's), as Abe Simpson says "I used to be with it, but then they changed what it means, now what I'm with isn't it and what is it is strange and weird" -- after all, there are plenty of 90-year-olds still dancing away to their favourite big-band swing tunes from the 40's :P , whilst the enthusiasts of ragtime which swing replaced as the predominant popular music style are even fewer and further between (and of course before ragtime there was no prerecorded pop music at all -- no Edison cylinders, no 78s -- actual classical Western music and classical folk music does endure however).

Similarly, historic racing events are still there for you to see your favourite Cosworth DFVs, Benetton-BMWs, various pre-Grand Prix cars with the engine in the front for the older demographic etc...

I guess one can simply not listen to the commericial pop music stations that (now) play vastly more songs that I don't like than songs I do like, but that's not really possible with the Formula One world championship. But as much as one might want them to revert to 2005 cars -- no halos, 60 kg tubs instead of 120kg tubs (a significant regression in safety!), wailing V10 engines, 605kg etc -- it's obviously not going to happen.

Especially the safety changes, zero chance of safety changes to the cars (and for the most part circuits too) being undone. The FIA are already taking risks with now granting Grade 1 status to quite fast and dangerous street circuits, that perhaps would not have been approved 10 years ago -- it is most unusual that changes were made to the Melbourne circuit to make it more dangerous rather than less. :shock:

Just_a_fan
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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JordanMugen wrote:
12 Apr 2022, 07:48
Especially the safety changes, zero chance of safety changes to the cars (and for the most part circuits too) being undone. The FIA are already taking risks with now granting Grade 1 status to quite fast and dangerous street circuits, that perhaps would not have been approved 10 years ago -- it is most unusual that changes were made to the Melbourne circuit to make it more dangerous rather than less. :shock:
I'm surprised that they made it faster, but they want "better racing" and that actually seems to be driving the decisions these days. I think the increase in non-damaging run off areas is also about the racing. Back in the day, a small mistake, or a nudge from a naughty competitor, could lead to a race-ending trip to a gravel trap, with the car sat on its belly, tyres spinning freely. That reduced the number of cars on track and the thus the chances of racing happening. The main benefit of run off areas is that it keeps cars in the race and, especially with the new cars, fighting through the field.

I, as I'm sure do many others (*), remember races where only a handful of cars crossed the finish line, with many sat in gravel traps because of a simple error. I don't understand why some people might want to go back to that. The corollary of adding "punishment" to a simple running-off-track moment is that we'd see drivers pushing less hard in the first place. Which seems to be contrary to the desire for more racing on track and drivers pushing hard.


(* judging by your stated music preferences, I think you're likely somewhat younger than me (not that I'm old, by the way! :lol: ) but probably still witnessed cars sat in gravel traps back in the day following a slight mistake)
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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Accident -> people die or get injured-> safety is improved

What´s the problem exactly? It´s the same in road car industry, in aviation industry, in train industry, in construction... even with electrical appliances!

I usually don´t like tarmac runoff areas, but when there was a huge and severe accident here, I find it surreal when some people prioritize the show over safety. I guess and hope they´re just too young

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Andres125sx
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McL-H wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 22:09
The runoff takes away the entire challenge of the corner. I understand they are making changes… but they should’ve put gravel there. With this there is zero risk for messing up the corner. I am not a fan of the development I have been witnessing at tracks towards runoff. It ruins entire tracks and now it is ruining Eau Rouge too. Drivers should be punished for driving over the limit.
Not sure how to say this without ruining your belgian GP, but Eau Rouge is not a corner for F1 for many many years now. It´s flat out, easy, even for the bottom of the grid

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vorticism
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Re: Spa is going to look significantly different this year!

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