Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
izzy
izzy
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Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: Mercedes W13

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Just_a_fan wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:43
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38

on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
Probably because they had to pull some drag off the car and they don't have an alternative rear wing in Jeddha.

Wouldn't it be amusingly ironic if the trimmed wing resulted in less porpoising and a lap time improvement?
I'm a bit surprised if they really didn't have a shallower wing made, but looking more closely the letters of Petronas are snipped off at the top! So it does look like a chainsaw job :shock: . And yes it would be funny :mrgreen: . But still they will be able to run lower anyway so who knows if the car might suddenly work.

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Unc1eM0nty
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Joined: 01 Feb 2014, 15:18
Location: Yorkshire (Gods own county)

Re: Mercedes W13

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izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38
on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
Gary Anderson ? :?

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Mercedes W13

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 20:35
These have been left untroubled by rule enforcer since the early 2000s because they don't move, but have substantial rigidity. Meaning that aerodynamic forces cannot move them.
They had solid stays before, and the legality of flexing T-trays was a *huge* issue in the last decade. Suddenly they're allowed.

If you can flex the T-tray and keep it flexed with a damper then you can run the car lower, more consistantly. There's 100% an aero advantage to that.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W13

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PhillipM wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:33
PlatinumZealot wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 20:35
These have been left untroubled by rule enforcer since the early 2000s because they don't move, but have substantial rigidity. Meaning that aerodynamic forces cannot move them.
They had solid stays before, and the legality of flexing T-trays was a *huge* issue in the last decade. Suddenly they're allowed.

If you can flex the T-tray and keep it flexed with a damper then you can run the car lower, more consistantly. There's 100% an aero advantage to that.
Somethings like this...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/anal ... 26/826626/
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izzy
izzy
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Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: Mercedes W13

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Unc1eM0nty wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:07
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38
on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
Gary Anderson ? :?
Started as a mechanic, ended up as Technical Director of an F1 team. Toi? :P

In this case, he had something relevant and even interesting to say about the W13.

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Mercedes W13

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izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:50
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:07
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38
on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
Gary Anderson ? :?
Started as a mechanic, ended up as Technical Director of an F1 team. Toi? :P
And now is old and out of touch. :P

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

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izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38
ivan599 wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 19:33


on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
:wtf:

Shorter chord means less downforce/drag. No GF means less expansion so drive the wing less, less drag.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 25 Mar 2022, 00:11, edited 1 time in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Mr5in1
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Joined: 20 Jul 2012, 11:33

Re: Mercedes W13

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siskue2005 wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:07
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:50
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:07


Gary Anderson ? :?
Started as a mechanic, ended up as Technical Director of an F1 team. Toi? :P
And now is old and out of touch. :P
Used to think he was OK but his recent reviews of the 2022 cars are bit erratic, he couldn't understand the ferrari concept and didn't think they would be quick....

izzy
izzy
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Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

siskue2005 wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:07
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:50
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 23:07


Gary Anderson ? :?
Started as a mechanic, ended up as Technical Director of an F1 team. Toi? :P
And now is old and out of touch. :P
Well yes, I mean you have to make up your own mind on what he says each time, but how many forumers are entitled to look down on him? Plus in this case he's making perfect sense. Mercedes have executed a kludge apparently!

izzy
izzy
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Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: Mercedes W13

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AR3-GP wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:10
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38
ivan599 wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 19:33


on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
:wtf:

Shorter chord means less downforce/drag. No GF means less expansion so drive the wing less, less drag.
Yes obviously less drag. Lol. His point is the efficiency, with the geometry. And since they have simply trimmed some off last week's wing, he's not wrong to be surprised is he 😲

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

izzy wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:34
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:10
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38

on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
:wtf:

Shorter chord means less downforce/drag. No GF means less expansion so drive the wing less, less drag.
Yes obviously less drag. Lol. His point is the efficiency, with the geometry. And since they have simply trimmed some off last week's wing, he's not wrong to be surprised is he 😲
I think what they are doing with the wing is related to the budget cap.
A lion must kill its prey.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

izzy wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:34
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:10
izzy wrote:
24 Mar 2022, 22:38

on Racefans, Gary Anderson can't understand why they've cut the top/back edge off with its Gurney flap, when that's where it has the most leverage.
:wtf:

Shorter chord means less downforce/drag. No GF means less expansion so drive the wing less, less drag.
Yes obviously less drag. Lol. His point is the efficiency, with the geometry. And since they have simply trimmed some off last week's wing, he's not wrong to be surprised is he 😲
What did he expect them to do? If they don't have an alternative wing then all they can do is cut the flap down. They can't hack any other part of the wing, can they?
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:39
izzy wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:34
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:10


:wtf:

Shorter chord means less downforce/drag. No GF means less expansion so drive the wing less, less drag.
Yes obviously less drag. Lol. His point is the efficiency, with the geometry. And since they have simply trimmed some off last week's wing, he's not wrong to be surprised is he 😲
I think what they are doing with the wing is related to the budget cap.
Or there's no point making a wing until they know it will work and that car's porpoising issue is sorted.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:50
AR3-GP wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:39
izzy wrote:
25 Mar 2022, 00:34

Yes obviously less drag. Lol. His point is the efficiency, with the geometry. And since they have simply trimmed some off last week's wing, he's not wrong to be surprised is he 😲
I think what they are doing with the wing is related to the budget cap.
Or there's no point making a wing until they know it will work and that car's porpoising issue is sorted.
Yes which ties into the budget cap.
A lion must kill its prey.

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
30
Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: Mercedes W13

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Love that the top team in the sport the last 8 years is having to lop off parts of the rear wing, all the cfd, laser measurement etc and then they just take an angle grinder to it. Much more relatable!