2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

This is a close up picture of the front wheels… I don’t see how air could be routed back into the car… I doubt is been done through the wishbones, that would be a lot of routing hot air, to go where? The only outlets in the back of the car are on the “Cannon Tunnel” where the hot air from the engine exits.

https://i.imgur.com/8lP84b6.jpg

It was my imagination, from the picture I posted it looked in the original solution as if the air was being ported into the car fro use elsewhere, or a flow of air coming the opposite way, but I was clearly mistaken.

My thoughts around it's user were around the idea that as it was not part of the engine cooling, the team could take that hot air and use it in a more flexible way than they are with the engine cooling and without impacting drag in the same way.

[SmallSoldier]

This is a close up picture of the front wheels… I don’t see how air could be routed back into the car… I doubt is been done through the wishbones, that would be a lot of routing hot air, to go where? The only outlets in the back of the car are on the “Cannon Tunnel” where the hot air from the engine exits.

https://i.imgur.com/8lP84b6.jpg

It was my imagination, from the picture I posted it looked in the original solution as if the air was being ported into the car fro use elsewhere, or a flow of air coming the opposite way, but I was clearly mistaken.

My thoughts around it's user were around the idea that as it was not part of the engine cooling, the team could take that hot air and use it in a more flexible way than they are with the engine cooling and without impacting drag in the same way.

That would have been innovative!

I’m scratching my head (like most of us I’m sure) on how much impact the ducts are having in terms of performance and I can only think of tire temperature and the ability to use the brakes to their maximum potential (trail braking for example)… What compromises that creates on the rest of the car? If they need to run more front wing in order to compensate for lack of grip from the front tires, that adds to the drag on the car… But given the current formula, I believe that the biggest issue (as has been brought up by several members) is that they are simply not creating enough downforce from the floor itself, how hard would it be to increase that is the biggest question… I don’t think is a matter of changing the sidepods shape or a problem with rear tire drag, it’s just increasing either volume or speed of the air traveling through the tunnels… But I’m clueless in regards to how much they can do to make it happen.

[mwillems]

This is a close up picture of the front wheels… I don’t see how air could be routed back into the car… I doubt is been done through the wishbones, that would be a lot of routing hot air, to go where? The only outlets in the back of the car are on the “Cannon Tunnel” where the hot air from the engine exits.

https://i.imgur.com/8lP84b6.jpg

It was my imagination, from the picture I posted it looked in the original solution as if the air was being ported into the car fro use elsewhere, or a flow of air coming the opposite way, but I was clearly mistaken.

My thoughts around it's user were around the idea that as it was not part of the engine cooling, the team could take that hot air and use it in a more flexible way than they are with the engine cooling and without impacting drag in the same way.

That would have been innovative!

I’m scratching my head (like most of us I’m sure) on how much impact the ducts are having in terms of performance and I can only think of tire temperature and the ability to use the brakes to their maximum potential (trail braking for example)… What compromises that creates on the rest of the car? If they need to run more front wing in order to compensate for lack of grip from the front tires, that adds to the drag on the car… But given the current formula, I believe that the biggest issue (as has been brought up by several members) is that they are simply not creating enough downforce from the floor itself, how hard would it be to increase that is the biggest question… I don’t think is a matter of changing the sidepods shape or a problem with rear tire drag, it’s just increasing either volume or speed of the air traveling through the tunnels… But I’m clueless in regards to how much they can do to make it happen.

In terms of trail braking, it is interesting you mentioned that. Martin Brundle and co were talking about these cars and were saying that they had been informed that these cars now handle like cars of old, in that they do not like lateral loads under braking, so they are at present back to the old days of braking to speed before corner entry and not in corner entry.

As for tyre heating, I don't really know how much it has been impacted but then I'm not sure how much of an issue that would have been once the car was up to speed in Bahrain so it feels like it may be something different as it never got any faster.


Re: the tunnels, Merc had that nice solution on the tunnel entry where some airflow was brought down in bargeboard style to seal the floor. I suppose we could implement something along those lines. Other points would be how low the car is. I can't tell if it is .5mm higher than other cars but something like that would make a difference I guess. But reality is that there are probably a number of things that need to happen.

Of course setup is another big aspect, perhaps the team just don't get this car yet.

[Emag]

Mercedes came out and made a statement. They plan to fix their problems by the fourth race.

I just hope we get a timeframe of when we can expect improvements from McLaren soon.

[Ground Effect]

Mercedes came out and made a statement. They plan to fix their problems by the fourth race.

I just hope we get a timeframe of when we can expect improvements from McLaren soon.

Apart from the fact that Mercedes clearly and visibly struggled, they had a good pre season test. So it's not impossible that by the time the first race Bahrain came round, they knew exactly what their problem was and how to go about fixing. For McLaren, the brake ducts issue compromised the test, so getting to Bahrain GP weekend, they probably didn't know the magnitude of the problem. I'm hoping by the time they return to Barcelona, improvements will start to show. Anything before that will feel like winning the lottery.

[CjC]

Mercedes came out and made a statement. They plan to fix their problems by the fourth race.

I just hope we get a timeframe of when we can expect improvements from McLaren soon.

Apart from the fact that Mercedes clearly and visibly struggled, they had a good pre season test. So it's not impossible that by the time the first race Bahrain came round, they knew exactly what their problem was and how to go about fixing. For McLaren, the brake ducts issue compromised the test, so getting to Bahrain GP weekend, they probably didn't know the magnitude of the problem. I'm hoping by the time they return to Barcelona, improvements will start to show. Anything before that will feel like winning the lottery.

Considering your username, what are the chances of Mclaren hiring you to help them out??

[Ground Effect]

Mercedes came out and made a statement. They plan to fix their problems by the fourth race.

I just hope we get a timeframe of when we can expect improvements from McLaren soon.

Apart from the fact that Mercedes clearly and visibly struggled, they had a good pre season test. So it's not impossible that by the time the first race Bahrain came round, they knew exactly what their problem was and how to go about fixing. For McLaren, the brake ducts issue compromised the test, so getting to Bahrain GP weekend, they probably didn't know the magnitude of the problem. I'm hoping by the time they return to Barcelona, improvements will start to show. Anything before that will feel like winning the lottery.

Considering your username, what are the chances of Mclaren hiring you to help them out??

If they hired me, it would probably be a case of, "what do we have to loose, it can't get worse".... "hold my beer!!"

[proteus]

Apart from the fact that Mercedes clearly and visibly struggled, they had a good pre season test. So it's not impossible that by the time the first race Bahrain came round, they knew exactly what their problem was and how to go about fixing. For McLaren, the brake ducts issue compromised the test, so getting to Bahrain GP weekend, they probably didn't know the magnitude of the problem. I'm hoping by the time they return to Barcelona, improvements will start to show. Anything before that will feel like winning the lottery.

Considering your username, what are the chances of Mclaren hiring you to help them out??

If they hired me, it would probably be a case of, "what do we have to loose, it can't get worse".... "hold my beer!!"

Going from lack of downforce straight to violent porpoising

[_cerber1]

[restless]

something does not compute for me.
- Mc loses most in slow corners
- in 2022, most downforce is from the floor
- the higher the speed the bigger downforce generated

Which of these 3 statements is wrong?!
Or i dont understand how cars grip works /pretty possible/ ?

[SmallSoldier]

something does not compute for me.
- Mc loses most in slow corners
- in 2022, most downforce is from the floor
- the higher the speed the bigger downforce generated

Which of these 3 statements is wrong?!
Or i dont understand how cars grip works /pretty possible/ ?

All 3 statements are correct… They are lacking mechanical grip in addition to aerodynamic grip (downforce)… Even though DF increases with speed, there is still an effect in “slow” corners

[mwillems]

I wonder when James Key realised what they were missing? Barcelona or Bahrain test.

He may have realised the deficiencies in Barcelona but thought they were opportunities to get ahead of the pack, before realising in Bahrain how far behind they were, at least in those circumstances.

This is make or break time for some individuals I suspect, how do they bounce back over the next 3 months?

This is Keys first MCL designed solely under him so this is a tricky time for him.

[AtlasZX]

something does not compute for me.
- Mc loses most in slow corners
- in 2022, most downforce is from the floor
- the higher the speed the bigger downforce generated

Which of these 3 statements is wrong?!
Or i dont understand how cars grip works /pretty possible/ ?

slow corners for F1 standars are like 150 Km/h

[JordanMugen]

However when have Mclaren blamed Mercedes this last week?

“It's a sin to complain about the engines, because Mercedes finished the race in 3rd and 4th places,” Norris said after the race. “But it certainly doesn’t help—I think we definitely don’t have enough power compared to the rest of the guys."

I don't really understand why McLaren went from Renault to Mercedes. Renault and Alpine would potentially have offered far opportunities for McLaren to collaborate on wind tunnel, simulators, gearboxes etc. The Renault power unit itself is obviously a handy bit of kit too, potentially the third strongest!

But what are the reasons of the lack of performance is an internal matter.

Forza McLaren

I think people have to just relax and give the team a few weeks to a) identify exactly what the problems are and b) identify the solutions going forward

If the issue is an outdated wind tunnel that doesn't have yaw capability and a simulator that is outdated too, aren't the problems rather fundamental? With inferior tools to Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes, how can McLaren be expected to build an equal or superior car?

Those things could have potentially been fixed with an Alpine partnership so the two Renault teams -- Alpine with a steadfast frugal approach and McLaren with debt problems -- could share the costs of modern facilities and not need to carry the full cost burden of upgrading to modern facilities.

In Pat Fry's interview with F1 Beyond the Grid, Fry stressed the importance of having good, up-to-date tools. Hence with Alpine lacking those, thus setting a realistic 4-5 year timeframe to get to the front. It seems that McLaren also lacks up-to-date tools compared to Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes.

When McLaren were last at the front 10 years ago, they had tools as good or better than anyone. But it has moved on a lot since then and McLaren, seemingly because of debt and/or lower funding than the top teams, hasn't invested in the best equipment to stay competitive with the top teams in terms of facilities since then. So even with a cost-cap they are still handicapped by having inferior car design tools.

[SmallSoldier]

However when have Mclaren blamed Mercedes this last week?

“It's a sin to complain about the engines, because Mercedes finished the race in 3rd and 4th places,” Norris said after the race. “But it certainly doesn’t help—I think we definitely don’t have enough power compared to the rest of the guys."

I don't really understand why McLaren went from Renault to Mercedes. Renault and Alpine would potentially have offered far opportunities for McLaren to collaborate on wind tunnel, simulators, gearboxes etc.

The Renault power unit itself is obviously a handy bit of kit too, potentially the third strongest!

That’s not complaining… That’s a comment based on what everyone else has seeing on the track… The team has made very clear that their problem is lack of downforce and mechanical grip and that’s on them