Mercedes W13

[matteosc]

Looking at the Jeddah FP2 telemetry, it really does look like the Merc have much shorter gears than the Ferrari and RB. Wouldn’t this have an impact on ICE wear in the long run (hitting higher RPM)?

This was observed in pre-season testing already. I think different engines are just design to work at different rpm, I do not think it has anything to do with reliability. I guess we will have to wait 6-7 races before knowing if and how it impacts the power over several races.

[dans79]

Of course, but they cant put infinitely stiff springs and dampers into the car can they. That would be another way to crudely patch the problem.
The fix realistically has to be to better manage the flows under the floor.
How, i have no idea

That's part of it, but they might also might be able to alter the suspension in a way that causes the front and rear to have different natural frequencies.

The car has a natural frequency as a whole, which depends on overall mass, mass distribution and stiffness of front and rear. You do not have different "localized" natural frequencies.

You can alter the the overall frequency by altering the input of individual components.

[matteosc]

That's part of it, but they might also might be able to alter the suspension in a way that causes the front and rear to have different natural frequencies.

The car has a natural frequency as a whole, which depends on overall mass, mass distribution and stiffness of front and rear. You do not have different "localized" natural frequencies.

You can alter the the overall frequency by altering the input of individual components.

You definitely can, but you will not have "different natural frequencies" between front and back. Also, with fix mass and mass distribution, you can only change the stiffness of the suspensions, with huge compromise in terms of mechanical setup (as I tried to point out several times already, sorry for repeating...).

[zibby43]

Rear wing hi-res:

[url]https://www.racefans.net/wp-conten ... 6-26-5.jpg [/url]

Doesn't look like they have used chainsaw or a grinder. It looks very elegant and clean. Maybe they didn't have smaller Petronas sticker, hence the sticker is jutting out ?

It does look very well-sorted!

A bit of weight savings as an added bonus in this instance.

[AR3-GP]

Looking at the Jeddah FP2 telemetry, it really does look like the Merc have much shorter gears than the Ferrari and RB. Wouldn’t this have an impact on ICE wear in the long run (hitting higher RPM)?

This was observed in pre-season testing already. I think different engines are just design to work at different rpm, I do not think it has anything to do with reliability. I guess we will have to wait 6-7 races before knowing if and how it impacts the power over several races.

But the Merc gears are different from the Mclaren gears.

What if Merc just got the drag target wrong (or rather presumed it to be higher than what other teams achieve)? Otherwise I don't understand why Mercedes gears are shorter than customers.

[Mchamilton]

Looking at the Jeddah FP2 telemetry, it really does look like the Merc have much shorter gears than the Ferrari and RB. Wouldn’t this have an impact on ICE wear in the long run (hitting higher RPM)?

This was observed in pre-season testing already. I think different engines are just design to work at different rpm, I do not think it has anything to do with reliability. I guess we will have to wait 6-7 races before knowing if and how it impacts the power over several races.

But the Merc gears are different from the Mclaren gears.

What if Merc just got the drag target wrong (or rather presumed it to be higher than what other teams achieve)? Otherwise I don't understand why Mercedes gears are shorter than customers.

In what scenario would shorter gears be a bad thing anyway? Improves acceleration and they still hit healthy enough top speeds

[cooken]

The car has a natural frequency as a whole, which depends on overall mass, mass distribution and stiffness of front and rear. You do not have different "localized" natural frequencies.

You can alter the the overall frequency by altering the input of individual components.

You definitely can, but you will not have "different natural frequencies" between front and back. Also, with fix mass and mass distribution, you can only change the stiffness of the suspensions, with huge compromise in terms of mechanical setup (as I tried to point out several times already, sorry for repeating...).

Huh? I think you absolutely would. The car will have a large number of modes each with it's own frequency. I would not at all be surprised if some of them had isolated front/rear motion. Their relative activation/participation might well be low though.

Otherwise I agree the scope of stiffness changes in context of such frequencies, as well as other ride characteristics would be very limited. The tyres though...another spring with a rate decided on by Pirelli and changed on a whim during the race weekend.

[Henri]

The car's race pace has improved 6 tenths down better than bahrain.. a podium is possible

[GrizzleBoy]

Is it possible for it to be advantageous for the floor to be stalled instead of working better on the straights?


Maybe shape the front wing in such a way that when it flexes under load at the kind of speed youd only see on at the end of a long straight, it actually directs air away from the venturi entrances and reduces the floors ability to create suction?

Could choking the tunnels actually help on the straights, if it was in a controlled manner?

[matteosc]

You can alter the the overall frequency by altering the input of individual components.

You definitely can, but you will not have "different natural frequencies" between front and back. Also, with fix mass and mass distribution, you can only change the stiffness of the suspensions, with huge compromise in terms of mechanical setup (as I tried to point out several times already, sorry for repeating...).

Huh? I think you absolutely would. The car will have a large number of modes each with it's own frequency. I would not at all be surprised if some of them had isolated front/rear motion. Their relative activation/participation might well be low though.

Otherwise I agree the scope of stiffness changes in context of such frequencies, as well as other ride characteristics would be very limited. The tyres though...another spring with a rate decided on by Pirelli and changed on a whim during the race weekend.

Of course you have plenty of modes. Some of them will be isolated in portion of the car, but they are at higher frequencies and they are not the first few global modes which are clearly the ones involved in porpoising.

[matteosc]

Is it possible for it to be advantageous for the floor to be stalled instead of working better on the straights?


Maybe shape the front wing in such a way that when it flexes under load at the kind of speed youd only see on at the end of a long straight, it actually directs air away from the venturi entrances and reduces the floors ability to create suction?

Could choking the tunnels actually help on the straights, if it was in a controlled manner?

It would be useful only if significantly reduces the drag, but in general the floor does not produce much drag.

[atanatizante]

Could the Venturi tunnels be tuned/trimmed/whatever in such a way that it stalls at a certain airflow velocity/car's speed when the porpoising effect is occurring?

[matteosc]

Could the Venturi tunnels be tuned/trimmed/whatever in such a way that it stalls at a certain airflow velocity/car's speed when the porpoising effect is occurring?

Stalling the venturi tunnels is what is causing porpoising in the first place, so I am not sure how it would help. If you stall the tunnel you lose downforce and the stalling "goes away", which is what porpoising is all about.

[VacuousFlamboyant]

Is it possible for it to be advantageous for the floor to be stalled instead of working better on the straights?


Maybe shape the front wing in such a way that when it flexes under load at the kind of speed youd only see on at the end of a long straight, it actually directs air away from the venturi entrances and reduces the floors ability to create suction?

Could choking the tunnels actually help on the straights, if it was in a controlled manner?

It would hit the ground even harder, more suction and compromised sealing. Although, the idea of using the front wing to deflect air into it is good. They tried cutting one of the planes in the floor to increase air volume in the middle section and mitigate porpoising, to no avail. I suspect this is Redbull's secret, they're redirecting some of the air from the sidepod inlets to the floor. I'm sure Mercedes is hard at work trying to figure ways to push more air into it as velocity increases, like using the front wing.

[pantherxxx]

It's interesting to note that the car with the most "radical" side-pods, seems to be suffering the most with the porpoising issue, and their engineers appear to be struggling more than the others, to figure it out, and get it sorted.

My monies on, Mercedes has a fundamental issue that's a result of their design concept, and they to properly sort it out, they would have to redesign the car, which with the budget cap, they can't afford to do (Of course, I could be wrong - Always possible)

As it is, as a temporary/desperate fix, they're stripping rear wing off the car to try to get a higher straight line speed. That's fine for the straights, where you want to be able to keep up with your faster rivals, and keep ahead of your rivals with equal speed, but it can cost dearly in the corners, both in lost time, and in increased tyre wear, as the car slides more.

I'm suspecting that despite what Mercedes/Hamilton fans might be thinking/saying ("Mercedes will get this sorted quickly, and then Red Bull and Ferrari will be in real trouble" and such like), it could take Mercedes quite a bit of time to sort it out, and it could be a case that, in reality, in fixing the issues, they create others that compromise the cars performance just as much.

Ferrari and Red Bull already have a big advantage over Mercedes: Their cars have great performance, are well balanced, and neither team are chasing an unidentified aero/design issue, that could eat into their capped budget.