Aston Martin AMR22

[stealthmode]

Updates for Saudi Arabian GP:

[Sevach]

Low downforce RW in action(matched with the large front).

[F1doc]

[Stu]

Detail of Aston Martin’s radiators… Almost placed horizontal:

https://i.imgur.com/3BHUY3J.jpg

If they want to…
It looks to be reasonably straightforward for them to move to either Ferrari/Alpine or Red Bull/Alpa Tauri out-washing side-pod solution (done right this would also stiffen the floor and get some weight out). Due to the positioning of the radiator they do not have as many restrictions on solutions as Mercedes/AMG.

[JPower]

If they want to…
It looks to be reasonably straightforward for them to move to either Ferrari/Alpine or Red Bull/Alpa Tauri out-washing side-pod solution (done right this would also stiffen the floor and get some weight out). Due to the positioning of the radiator they do not have as many restrictions on solutions as Mercedes/AMG.

They could, but given Aston's aero performance over the past 2 years would you trust them to get that right either?

Alfa is using a similar concept and seems much better resolved on track.

[raymondu999]

If they want to…
It looks to be reasonably straightforward for them to move to either Ferrari/Alpine or Red Bull/Alpa Tauri out-washing side-pod solution (done right this would also stiffen the floor and get some weight out). Due to the positioning of the radiator they do not have as many restrictions on solutions as Mercedes/AMG.

They could, but given Aston's aero performance over the past 2 years would you trust them to get that right either?

Alfa is using a similar concept and seems much better resolved on track.

Agreed. The Alfa on the same double floor idea is doing a better job — and the rear is tapering more too, which I guess points to the AMR being less well packaged? Or the Merc engine is less well packageable — which I doubt, given the lack of sidepod on the Merc

[raymondu999]

Detail of Aston Martin’s radiators… Almost placed horizontal:

https://i.imgur.com/3BHUY3J.jpg

If they want to…
It looks to be reasonably straightforward for them to move to either Ferrari/Alpine or Red Bull/Alpa Tauri out-washing side-pod solution (done right this would also stiffen the floor and get some weight out). Due to the positioning of the radiator they do not have as many restrictions on solutions as Mercedes/AMG.

They could go the Haas/Alpine route I agree, but the RB/AlphaTauri route surely they would need to change the slant angle of the radiator? And the Ferrari route, would they really be able to carve out the bathtubs in the sidepods? Given how the radiator is in the way? Either way they would need to repackage the rads downwards toward the rear surely.

[ringo]

Air turning almost 90 degrees through the radiator core should create more drag than normal.
Very interesting design to increase flow on top of the floor but too extreme.

[Just_a_fan]

Air turning almost 90 degrees through the radiator core should create more drag than normal.
Very interesting design to increase flow on top of the floor but too extreme.

Agreed. That radiator installation must be very drag inducing. No wonder they're struggling in a straight line.

[Stu]

I agree to a certain point, but flow through the radiator is also determined by the pressure differential between the inlet plenum and exhaust ducting/vent location.
This is why the ‘cannon’-style exits became popular under the old rule-set (itself either a drag or mass increasing solution), now that louvres are back there are more options.

Slightly OT - both the Mercedes & McLaren radiator positioning also looks to be very solution limiting, but in different ways.

[Just_a_fan]

I agree to a certain point, but flow through the radiator is also determined by the pressure differential between the inlet plenum and exhaust ducting/vent location.
This is why the ‘cannon’-style exits became popular under the old rule-set (itself either a drag or mass increasing solution), now that louvres are back there are more options.

Slightly OT - both the Mercedes & McLaren radiator positioning also looks to be very solution limiting, but in different ways.

If you turn airflow then you create drag. The use of a horizontal radiator means the airflow is going through two 90 degree changes of direction and that's just not going to be as low drag as a more traditional radiator set up.

Radiators can be moved. I don't see why you seem to be taking aim at Merc/McLaren and suggesting they can't change things. If they feel a need, they can change them.

[Stu]

I agree to a certain point, but flow through the radiator is also determined by the pressure differential between the inlet plenum and exhaust ducting/vent location.
This is why the ‘cannon’-style exits became popular under the old rule-set (itself either a drag or mass increasing solution), now that louvres are back there are more options.

Slightly OT - both the Mercedes & McLaren radiator positioning also looks to be very solution limiting, but in different ways.

If you turn airflow then you create drag. The use of a horizontal radiator means the airflow is going through two 90 degree changes of direction and that's just not going to be as low drag as a more traditional radiator set up.

Radiators can be moved. I don't see why you seem to be taking aim at Merc/McLaren and suggesting they can't change things. If they feel a need, they can change them.

Not saying that they cannot be moved, but potentially a big impact of budget if major changes to chassis are required to do so; I have not seen a bare Mercedes chassis, but there is some suggestion that they are recessed into the tub sides, their radiators are mounted very low. The McLaren radiators are also fairly horizontal (and also very far forwards - in between SIS).

This is now starting to get OT, so I may move this to the Engine thread.

[BassVirolla]

I agree to a certain point, but flow through the radiator is also determined by the pressure differential between the inlet plenum and exhaust ducting/vent location.
This is why the ‘cannon’-style exits became popular under the old rule-set (itself either a drag or mass increasing solution), now that louvres are back there are more options.

Slightly OT - both the Mercedes & McLaren radiator positioning also looks to be very solution limiting, but in different ways.

If you turn airflow then you create drag. The use of a horizontal radiator means the airflow is going through two 90 degree changes of direction and that's just not going to be as low drag as a more traditional radiator set up.

Radiators can be moved. I don't see why you seem to be taking aim at Merc/McLaren and suggesting they can't change things. If they feel a need, they can change them.

Conceptually, not necessarily the radiator fins have to be placed at 90° to the longitudinal axis of the radiator, nor being flat.

I don't know if it's forbidden / allowed by the rules.

[JPower]

Air turning almost 90 degrees through the radiator core should create more drag than normal.
Very interesting design to increase flow on top of the floor but too extreme.

Agreed. That radiator installation must be very drag inducing. No wonder they're struggling in a straight line.

Again, the Alfa is using the same orientation, haven't seen anything to suggest its lacking in a straightline vs the other two Ferrari cars.

[Mandrake]

My street car has a horizontal radiator and I always get problems with heat when I go too slow. Luckily I have fans to assist in these situations, but isn't the Aston also prone to overheating with such a radiator layout? In a long VSC phase for example, or behind SC