2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[dans79]

While Mercedes nay not be much behind FERRARI/Honda power wise it is now a fact that they are behind both.

Say who, you?

[lh13]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.

McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams don't have any margin to run the engines detuned. And I find it hard to believe that three different aero concepts are struggling solely because of aerodynamics and not in part due to PU.

[saviour stivala]

While Mercedes nay not be much behind FERRARI/Honda power wise it is now a fact that they are behind both.

Say who, you?

The following might interest you. An interesting read by Dieter Rencken re Mercedes present situation on RN 365 ‘’can Mercedes claw their way back to the front after a tough start?’’.

[Just_a_fan]

"Head of" is management. They're the people that get in the way of the people doing the work.

Former head of HPP Andy Cowell included? What a relief he's gone, so they were finally able to produce a PU they always wanted but were being held back by evil management /s

The point is that the heads of departments aren't the only ones in an organisation that come up with ideas, turn ideas in to reality, etc. Indeed, the best managers are those that make it possible for others to do those things. Heads of departments that don't allow their staff to do these things tend to end up with underperforming staff and poor results.

Yes, the people that have moved will be a loss, but it isn't a "oh well, they've left so we better all just turn off the lights and give up" scenario.

Oh, and the laughing emoji at the end - there's a clue as to the seriousness of my original post there. Hint: it was humour.

[PlatinumZealot]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.

McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams don't have any margin to run the engines detuned. And I find it hard to believe that three different aero concepts are struggling solely because of aerodynamics and not in part due to PU.

Well, you are assuming the aerodynamics of these cars are on par with the others! It could indeed be a collective complacency after having the best engines in the last era.

[lh13]

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.

McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams don't have any margin to run the engines detuned. And I find it hard to believe that three different aero concepts are struggling solely because of aerodynamics and not in part due to PU.

Well, you are assuming the aerodynamics of these cars are on par with the others! It could indeed be a collective complacency after having the best engines in the last era.

No, I am not assuming that, that is why I said 'in part due to the PU'.

[silver]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.

https://racingnews365.com/mercedes-cust ... ver-engine

Some of Mercedes' engine customers have suggested that the new power unit from the German manufacturer isn't quite as powerful as they'd like.

Nico Hulkenberg, making his return to F1 as he stepped into the Aston Martin in place of the ill Sebastian Vettel, said he also felt there wasn't a huge amount of oomph from the power unit.

"[It seemed] sort of off today," said Hulkenberg, whose last handful of races were also with Mercedes power, as he deputised on three occasions for Racing Point in 2020.

"Even with DRS sometimes I [just wasn't] catching people. We seemed to be a little bit down on speeds on the straights."

[AR3-GP]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.

Can Mclaren, Aston Martin, and Williams afford this conservation mode? It sucks to be a customer I suppose. Nothing new.

[dans79]

The point is that the heads of departments aren't the only ones in an organisation that come up with ideas, turn ideas in to reality, etc. Indeed, the best managers are those that make it possible for others to do those things. Heads of departments that don't allow their staff to do these things tend to end up with underperforming staff and poor results.

Yep, this is one of the reasons I get along with my current boss so well, He lets me do my job, and leaves me alone as much as possible.

[PlatinumZealot]

Can't trust drivers with engines. They cry for more power even when the wind changes.

[Chuckjr]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.

The hopium is getting thicker and thicker.

[silver]

Why is that all probable/possible issues with Mercedes are being swept under the carpet. Losing staff, not an issue, engine power deficit, not an issue, drag as an excuse, not an issue. At this rate, I am thinking, losing the championship wouldn't be an issue either. Having won 8 titles in a row calls for a bit of relaxing I am sure. Of course we don't know the exact nature of the problems, but it's out there in plane sight to see that there are problems. It becomes natural to start associating various things to the nature of the problem. To deny that isn't an issue, someone had to have looked at it in all honesty, critically analyzed it and then decide if that's not a cause.

[Stu]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.

Can Mclaren, Aston Martin, and Williams afford this conservation mode? It sucks to be a customer I suppose. Nothing new.

I’m not sure that as a supplier of (paid for) PU’s HPP can require customers to operate the ICE in a negative manner (just because the ‘factory’ team is struggling), it certainly doesn’t work the other way around!
Much is being made of the potential for an ES upgrade in September, however, they were already at the maximum permitted voltage (unlike Ferrari were), so gains will be proportionately small.
The car drag may not all come from the wings (although they do look fairly heavily loaded in comparison to front-runners), simply having smaller side-pods does not create less drag, drag is caused by trying to get the air to do things that it doesn’t really want to & having extra items in the airflow will disturb it.
Other than last year AMG/Mercedes have been able to bolt on fairly ‘dirty’ downforce, so it is possible that (with this years cars being developed in a vacuum, the teams not being aware of what the target is - due to a lack of comparative data); various assumptions have been made with regard to engine power, car drag/downforce and platform control.
Sometimes you get lucky, but normally assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups.

All non-Mercedes powered teams were in this exact position in 2014 & it took 7 years to overcome (over a whole season), and even that was a very close-run thing (in fact, it could be argued that looking at the whole season it was not achieved - 8x WCC on-the-bounce!!).

[chrisc90]

This zero pod design was meant to be 1-1.5s faster than the design they brought to Barcelona testing. Where did them times go!!

[silver]

This zero pod design was meant to be 1-1.5s faster than the design they brought to Barcelona testing. Where did them times go!!

Somebody from Mercedes said, the package didn't deliver as they anticipated. There could be some correlation issues. It could also be possible that it was indeed a second faster, but the other didn't show their full hand in first test.