2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Big Tea]

I think it’s already apparent that they paid off. Seems like almost every step Binotto has done in the last couple of years was the right one and especially wisely done - with the future in mind.

When we first came across Binotto, I stereotyped him and thought he would fail.
I was wrong. He is the guy for the job and I hope the 'higher up's' give him the free hand he needs and stay off his back.

(who said Don't judge a book by its cover?)

I guess we stereotype differently. The cover looked like one of the smartest guys in the paddock to me.

I figured if he had those glasses and that hairstyle. Smart???... but as I said, he gets the last laugh

[dialtone]

‘’well at any time a f1 car is of throttle it is essentially a braking event’’. Yes it is, even without the brakes being activated. And it is because the brakes are not being activated that the MGU-K harvesting being part of the brakes is not harvesting.
‘’my point was simply that I’ve never seen any regs that requires them to apply the brake pedal’’. Why should there be when the MGU-K harvesting is part of the car braking system?.
‘’good find on the diagram as well, I never noticed one’’. That diagram have been included in the FIA technical regulations since the start of the new hybrid introduction into the championship in 2014. So no wonder why the doubt as to when MGU-K starts harvesting.

Why are you saying that the MGU-K is part of the braking system? MGU-K is not technically "part of the braking system". There's no physical way in which brakes themselves can generate useful energy except for heat (which is a waste product in braking), MGU-K is more like engine braking and it's connected to the crank shaft (so it can power it back up as well), I wouldn't be surprised if it became active as soon as the throttle is lifted unless the rules state otherwise.

I cannoy but repeat ''ERS energy recovery system - Motor generator kinetic (MGU-K) harness kinetic energy from brakes that would otherwise have gone to waste''. This was the official statement of the FIA since the introduction of the new power unit formula since 2014. But before that the same warding was used when introducing the less powerful KERS system.

That's just to say that since the MGU-K will be taking kinetic energy from the crank shaft, and thus, by slowing down the car, it will take that energy away from what needs to be dissipated in the brakes, does not mean that the MGU-K is in the brakes. How would it release power back to the engine if it's not linked to the crankshaft otherwise? Each car would need to have a small electric engine in each rear wheels hubs, which they clearly do not have.

[saviour stivala]

Why are you saying that the MGU-K is part of the braking system? MGU-K is not technically "part of the braking system". There's no physical way in which brakes themselves can generate useful energy except for heat (which is a waste product in braking), MGU-K is more like engine braking and it's connected to the crank shaft (so it can power it back up as well), I wouldn't be surprised if it became active as soon as the throttle is lifted unless the rules state otherwise.

I cannoy but repeat ''ERS energy recovery system - Motor generator kinetic (MGU-K) harness kinetic energy from brakes that would otherwise have gone to waste''. This was the official statement of the FIA since the introduction of the new power unit formula since 2014. But before that the same warding was used when introducing the less powerful KERS system.

That's just to say that since the MGU-K will be taking kinetic energy from the crank shaft, and thus, by slowing down the car, it will take that energy away from what needs to be dissipated in the brakes, does not mean that the MGU-K is in the brakes. How would it release power back to the engine if it's not linked to the crankshaft otherwise? Each car would need to have a small electric engine in each rear wheels hubs, which they clearly do not have.

Trickery apart in both ‘extra harvesting’ as well as ‘extra deployment’ over and above what the rules or spirits of the rules stipulates or are intended to mean. In any which case such practices are in breach of the rules, or the spirit of such rules. The MGU-K in both of its two functions, that of deployment and harvesting. Regardless of ECU/CONTROL UNIT/ENGINE MAPS and what not. Both functions of the MGU-K are triggered and controlled by the throttle pedal and the brake pedal. The triggering and control of the harvesting function of the MGU-K by the brake pedal answers your question as for the MGU-K connection to the braking system of the car.
Because the MGU-K as per the rules is the only permitted source through which electrical power (max 161bhp) can be added to that produced by the ICE, it is attached to the ICE crankshaft.

[Tommy Cookers]

Trickery ... in breach of the rules, or the spirit of such rules...
......Both functions of the MGU-K are triggered and controlled by the throttle pedal and the brake pedal.
... electrical power (max 161bhp) can be added to that produced by the ICE, it is attached to the ICE crankshaft.

F1 drive cycle fuel-efficiency is improved by generating electrical energy when at partial ICE powers (and storing it)
like tens of millions of hybrid road cars have done
that can't that be against the hybrid F1 rules !
(or the fictional 'spirit of the rules')

the permissible electrical power in the DC line powering MGU-K motoring is 126.3 kW (c.169 hp)
so that the mechanical power of the MGU-K when motoring will be 120 kW (c.161 hp)
if the efficiency is better than that (95%) the permissible mechanical power will be correspondingly greater than 120 kW

[saviour stivala]

Unlike the practices of tens of millions of hybrid road going cars the formula 1 hybrid as intended and regulated by the rules the MGU-K harvests electyrical energy from the rear brakes that otherwise would have gone to waste.as such said harvesting is done by the brake pedal. harvesting by any other means is against the scope of the formula.

[dialtone]

I cannoy but repeat ''ERS energy recovery system - Motor generator kinetic (MGU-K) harness kinetic energy from brakes that would otherwise have gone to waste''. This was the official statement of the FIA since the introduction of the new power unit formula since 2014. But before that the same warding was used when introducing the less powerful KERS system.

That's just to say that since the MGU-K will be taking kinetic energy from the crank shaft, and thus, by slowing down the car, it will take that energy away from what needs to be dissipated in the brakes, does not mean that the MGU-K is in the brakes. How would it release power back to the engine if it's not linked to the crankshaft otherwise? Each car would need to have a small electric engine in each rear wheels hubs, which they clearly do not have.

Trickery apart in both ‘extra harvesting’ as well as ‘extra deployment’ over and above what the rules or spirits of the rules stipulates or are intended to mean. In any which case such practices are in breach of the rules, or the spirit of such rules. The MGU-K in both of its two functions, that of deployment and harvesting. Regardless of ECU/CONTROL UNIT/ENGINE MAPS and what not. Both functions of the MGU-K are triggered and controlled by the throttle pedal and the brake pedal. The triggering and control of the harvesting function of the MGU-K by the brake pedal answers your question as for the MGU-K connection to the braking system of the car.
Because the MGU-K as per the rules is the only permitted source through which electrical power (max 161bhp) can be added to that produced by the ICE, it is attached to the ICE crankshaft.

Nowhere in the technical regulations it is said that MGU-K must be activated by the brake pedal. The only paragraph is the one you posted earlier which just states where it needs to be installed. Each team regulates when the MGU-K operates via software and the different SOC modes change that behavior. It is certainly not connected to the brake system although brake input is very likely one of the main variables for its harvesting.

[saviour stivala]

Its stretching things out a tad too far interpreting the connection of actual brakes on the wheels and MGU-K harvesting as being installed right inside the brakes themselves. This sort of level will not help this forum argument any. It is at the same situation level when one goes looking at the rule book looking for use of brake pedal because it was expressed as a harvesting switch.

[Airshifter]

‘’well at any time a f1 car is of throttle it is essentially a braking event’’. Yes it is, even without the brakes being activated. And it is because the brakes are not being activated that the MGU-K harvesting being part of the brakes is not harvesting.
‘’my point was simply that I’ve never seen any regs that requires them to apply the brake pedal’’. Why should there be when the MGU-K harvesting is part of the car braking system?.
‘’good find on the diagram as well, I never noticed one’’. That diagram have been included in the FIA technical regulations since the start of the new hybrid introduction into the championship in 2014. So no wonder why the doubt as to when MGU-K starts harvesting.

I'm not going to debate this any longer myself. And I'm not 100% certain I'm correct, so please take no offense in me stating my opinion. But nothing says harvesting can only take place when you apply the brake pedal. As for the diagram, I've probably skimmed past it but never paid much attention, since I was already aware of all details I want to know about the hybrid systems. But nothing on that diagram says anything at all about a brake pedal, and that's the only issue I was debating.

In my view, any system that adds drag above the aero and engine braking could be called braking, so if the K started harvesting before the brake pedal was pushed they are in fact still harvesting energy that would be lost to brakes otherwise and it wouldn't contradict with their statements.

‘’well at any time a f1 car is of throttle it is essentially a braking event’’. Yes it is, even without the brakes being activated. And it is because the brakes are not being activated that the MGU-K harvesting being part of the brakes is not harvesting.
‘’my point was simply that I’ve never seen any regs that requires them to apply the brake pedal’’. Why should there be when the MGU-K harvesting is part of the car braking system?.
‘’good find on the diagram as well, I never noticed one’’. That diagram have been included in the FIA technical regulations since the start of the new hybrid introduction into the championship in 2014. So no wonder why the doubt as to when MGU-K starts harvesting.

Why are you saying that the MGU-K is part of the braking system? MGU-K is not technically "part of the braking system". There's no physical way in which brakes themselves can generate useful energy except for heat (which is a waste product in braking), MGU-K is more like engine braking and it's connected to the crank shaft (so it can power it back up as well), I wouldn't be surprised if it became active as soon as the throttle is lifted unless the rules state otherwise.

In all fairness the MGU K harvest functions are integrated into the braking system through the software and ECU. This is not to say that the pads touching the rotors is required, but similar to a compression release it still creates "braking" through the rear axles.

It would be interesting to know the specifics of how much their settings change track to track. If everyone is sending power through the H to the battery, then it seems you would harvest enough to keep the battery close to full when attacking.... but then it all comes at a cost of speed/fuel/etc, which might not make that possible every for short periods of time.

[saviour stivala]

‘’Why are you saying that the MGU-K is part of the braking system’’. First of all. Because the introduction of the hybrid system statement in 2014 say/declares MGU-K will harvest energy from the brakes that would otherwise goes to waste. Secondly. Because as you say ‘’the MGU-K harvest functions are integrated into the braking system’’ this as per the hybrid intentions re the ‘’K’’ will harvest energy from the brakes that would otherwise goes to waste

[Stu]

I will just say “lift & coast” was a thing that was not only connected to fuel saving.
The Perez spin in Bahrain was due to the MGU-K harvesting at the same point that there there was engine engine cut due to fuel starvation, he was not ‘on the brakes’ at the time.

[wowgr8]

In Maranello, the data confirm this, not only have they approached the power of the 2021 unit but will ultimately be able to further increase it when they have finished the PU reliability program at the beginning of the year, filling the torque curve with engine number 2 . now more bass-shifted. They think a more significant advantage could be visible in the months to come with the next unit , from Spain if Miami remains as the program deadline as it collects reliability data, to counter the significant weight updates that Red Bull will introduce and an eventual, albeit certainly not, return of the Mercedes.

https://www.formu1a.uno/quando-ferrari- ... uo-motore/

Last year when Mercedes began upping the power from Silverstone onwards I remember Red Bull/Honda were really passive, curious to see how they'll react this year if Ferrari upping the HP makes a big difference in the fight

What will also be interesting is whether Ferrari will give their customers these higher modes as well. We know the rules say that has to be the case, but it doesn't seem to be strictly enforced

[silver]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-sv ... o/9629227/

Ferrari is planning the first evolutionary packages of the F1-75: according to the first rumors we can anticipate that for Imola we will see the first interventions aimed at the aerodynamic efficiency of the red and the lightening of some parts.

The goal is to remove about 3 kg of the single-seater which is overweight like almost all the other F1 cars with the exception of Alfa Romeo which even allows itself to use ballast to balance the C42. At Maranello they are working in the tunnel to reduce drag and bring the maximum speeds that the Red Bull RB18 can produce at the end of the straights.

As far as the porpoising battle is concerned, however, we will have to wait for the Spanish GP to be held in Barcelona: on the Montmelò track, Ferrari should have the revised floor, thanks to which the negative effect of the porpoising will have to be greatly reduced, allowing the F1-75 to ride with a height from the ground that is more grazing the asphalt, without losing the aerodynamic load that is generated under the car of the two Venturi channels.

[JPBD1990]

I’m disappointed to see PMI advertising back on the Ferrari, but my conspiracy theory is that this was a big political win for Binotto.

I think PMI threatened to pull the plug unless changes were made, and Ferrari called their bluff. 2 races in the spotlight and they’re back as a ‘team partner’ and certainly not a title sponsor. I like to imagine that there was some grovelling on PMI’s part.

[dialtone]

FP2 fastest laps for the 2 Ferrari drivers.

SAI seems to be able to use the car a bit more than LEC who instead had a pretty scrappy lap despite the best time, especially in S3 there's a lot more to be found. On a positive note those rounded corners are gone, at least for LEC, this track doesn't force energy deployment as much as Jeddah did, but I think they are still holding something back due to porpoising as they approach braking point, especially SAI. I think the cars have somewhat the same aero setup.

[PlatinumZealot]

‘’Why are you saying that the MGU-K is part of the braking system’’. First of all. Because the introduction of the hybrid system statement in 2014 say/declares MGU-K will harvest energy from the brakes that would otherwise goes to waste. Secondly. Because as you say ‘’the MGU-K harvest functions are integrated into the braking system’’ this as per the hybrid intentions re the ‘’K’’ will harvest energy from the brakes that would otherwise goes to waste

When it comes to slowing the car the MGUK is just fancy engine braking.