Ferrari F1-75

[Stu]

The irony of AM and Mercedes being involved….

Is this an official protest, or just a bit of public lobbying?

“Check the matches of…” is a strange bit of phrasing; when Renault protested the Tracing Point Pink Mercedes in 2019, they knew which parts to protest. I wonder if they have seen something (or it has been leaked), as the cars are not that visually similar.

Strange that Ferrari/Haas have been singled out, but Red Bull/Alpha Tauri are not.

[wowgr8]

The irony of AM and Mercedes being involved….

Is this an official protest, or just a bit of public lobbying?

“Check the matches of…” is a strange bit of phrasing; when Renault protested the Tracing Point Pink Mercedes in 2019, they knew which parts to protest. I wonder if they have seen something (or it has been leaked), as the cars are not that visually similar.

Strange that Ferrari/Haas have been singled out, but Red Bull/Alpha Tauri are not.

Probably because Haas are seen as a tiny team with barely any money and facilities so they shouldn't be performing well, AlphaTauri are a more established team

[SiLo]

The irony of AM and Mercedes being involved….

Is this an official protest, or just a bit of public lobbying?

“Check the matches of…” is a strange bit of phrasing; when Renault protested the Tracing Point Pink Mercedes in 2019, they knew which parts to protest. I wonder if they have seen something (or it has been leaked), as the cars are not that visually similar.

Strange that Ferrari/Haas have been singled out, but Red Bull/Alpha Tauri are not.

I think people shout a lot about this, but that whole situation was on AM far more than Mercedes. And it's not the first time a team has been seen as a hypocrite, seems to happen to someone almost every single season!

[Stu]

This is true. There was an instance a few years ago when Ferrari protested something, but obviously didn’t really understand what they were protesting as they went to FIA for approval on a new interpretation and were told “that is not legal, as a result of the clarification (TD) issued after your previous protest”.

I wonder what they protesters think Haas are running (I think that the protest process involves you telling the FIA which part should be investigated), a catch-all ‘something might be amiss here - please tell us what’ looks like a smoke-screen?

[SiLo]

This is true. There was an instance a few years ago when Ferrari protested something, but obviously didn’t really understand what they were protesting as they went to FIA for approval on a new interpretation and were told “that is not legal, as a result of the clarification (TD) issued after your previous protest”.

I wonder what they protesters think Haas are running (I think that the protest process involves you telling the FIA which part should be investigated), a catch-all ‘something might be amiss here - please tell us what’ looks like a smoke-screen?

I don't think they will find anything physically on the cars that will get them in trouble, it might be around how the engineers use the same wind tunnel, and Ferrari personnel moving between the teams as well.

[mkay]

The irony of AM and Mercedes being involved….

Is this an official protest, or just a bit of public lobbying?

“Check the matches of…” is a strange bit of phrasing; when Renault protested the Tracing Point Pink Mercedes in 2019, they knew which parts to protest. I wonder if they have seen something (or it has been leaked), as the cars are not that visually similar.

Strange that Ferrari/Haas have been singled out, but Red Bull/Alpha Tauri are not.

This isn't the first time the Haas-Ferrari partnership gets called into question. Started in Haas' very first season in 2016, and then again in 2018.

[Stu]

This is true. There was an instance a few years ago when Ferrari protested something, but obviously didn’t really understand what they were protesting as they went to FIA for approval on a new interpretation and were told “that is not legal, as a result of the clarification (TD) issued after your previous protest”.

I wonder what they protesters think Haas are running (I think that the protest process involves you telling the FIA which part should be investigated), a catch-all ‘something might be amiss here - please tell us what’ looks like a smoke-screen?

I don't think they will find anything physically on the cars that will get them in trouble, it might be around how the engineers use the same wind tunnel, and Ferrari personnel moving between the teams as well.

AM & Mercedes both use the Mercedes tunnel (and I would doubt that the tunnel engineers swapped out between teams - could be wrong, but very difficult to prove either way), the same would go for Red Bull & Alpha Tauri (I’m fairly sure that they both use the RBT tunnel).

A really fine line between the opportunity for data transfer and actually doing it!

[SiLo]

This is true. There was an instance a few years ago when Ferrari protested something, but obviously didn’t really understand what they were protesting as they went to FIA for approval on a new interpretation and were told “that is not legal, as a result of the clarification (TD) issued after your previous protest”.

I wonder what they protesters think Haas are running (I think that the protest process involves you telling the FIA which part should be investigated), a catch-all ‘something might be amiss here - please tell us what’ looks like a smoke-screen?

I don't think they will find anything physically on the cars that will get them in trouble, it might be around how the engineers use the same wind tunnel, and Ferrari personnel moving between the teams as well.

AM & Mercedes both use the Mercedes tunnel (and I would doubt that the tunnel engineers swapped out between teams - could be wrong, but very difficult to prove either way), the same would go for Red Bull & Alpha Tauri (I’m fairly sure that they both use the RBT tunnel).

A really fine line between the opportunity for data transfer and actually doing it!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/aston-mar ... nd-tunnel/

Interestingly they are building their own!

All this is off topic however... Apologies mods.

[dialtone]

This is true. There was an instance a few years ago when Ferrari protested something, but obviously didn’t really understand what they were protesting as they went to FIA for approval on a new interpretation and were told “that is not legal, as a result of the clarification (TD) issued after your previous protest”.

I wonder what they protesters think Haas are running (I think that the protest process involves you telling the FIA which part should be investigated), a catch-all ‘something might be amiss here - please tell us what’ looks like a smoke-screen?

The instance from years ago was the understeer pedal on the McLaren which enabled the equivalent power vectoring functionality, Ferrari got it banned and then independently arrived at it and was told that their protesting got it banned.

That being said, this protest is pathetic especially coming from Otmar, who I just dislike.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 22ulo.html

For Szafnauer, pursuing a Mercedes aero philosophy was always the plan, given they used their engines and gearbox, when they had the funds available to make it happen. “We have been looking at that concept for a long time, mainly because we are constrained with the gearbox that we buy from Mercedes,” he says. “Mercedes have developed their gearbox casing to go along with that concept.

“We would buy that casing from them and use a totally different aero concept, which meant we are always compromised. So for a long time, we wanted to move to the Mercedes-type aerodynamic concept - not having a high rake, a lower rear end - but we just never had the financial resources to do it. We always had to carry things over.”

Maybe the ghost of Otmar's past should make a visit to the present Otmar to remind him what a hypocrite he is. Not only copying the concept costs money, which Haas clearly doesn't have and hasn't copied, but a lot of the concept is inherent in the packaging of the parts that you buy. What he's seeing is the salt of having a very competitive Ferrari engine. What a pathetic little person he is.

[continuum16]

The irony of AM and Mercedes being involved….

Is this an official protest, or just a bit of public lobbying?

“Check the matches of…” is a strange bit of phrasing; when Renault protested the Tracing Point Pink Mercedes in 2019, they knew which parts to protest. I wonder if they have seen something (or it has been leaked), as the cars are not that visually similar.

Strange that Ferrari/Haas have been singled out, but Red Bull/Alpha Tauri are not.

This isn't the first time the Haas-Ferrari partnership gets called into question. Started in Haas' very first season in 2016, and then again in 2018.

Funny how it's only when Haas start to finish ahead of more well-established teams that it pops up again. The Maranello base was all setup in 2020/21, but only now it's a real problem? Anyways, I don't think that anything will come of it (just like previous times).

Steering back to the F1-75, I find it interesting how there seems to be so many parts of this car that rivals and analysts (and people like me) can't quite fully grasp. For example, how do the scalloped sidepods work? How can it be so fast yet still be so bouncy? Is the engine a split turbo setup? Yes there are theories, but nothing definitive. People tend to fear what they do not understand, and I think others can't understand why this car is so fast.

Looking forward to seeing if the updated floor provides the intended benefits, because Merc didn't seem to have any luck when they tried new floors in Bahrain.

[continuum16]

This is true. There was an instance a few years ago when Ferrari protested something, but obviously didn’t really understand what they were protesting as they went to FIA for approval on a new interpretation and were told “that is not legal, as a result of the clarification (TD) issued after your previous protest”.

I wonder what they protesters think Haas are running (I think that the protest process involves you telling the FIA which part should be investigated), a catch-all ‘something might be amiss here - please tell us what’ looks like a smoke-screen?

The instance from years ago was the understeer pedal on the McLaren which enabled the equivalent power vectoring functionality, Ferrari got it banned and then independently arrived at it and was told that their protesting got it banned.

That being said, this protest is pathetic especially coming from Otmar, who I just dislike.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 22ulo.html

For Szafnauer, pursuing a Mercedes aero philosophy was always the plan, given they used their engines and gearbox, when they had the funds available to make it happen. “We have been looking at that concept for a long time, mainly because we are constrained with the gearbox that we buy from Mercedes,” he says. “Mercedes have developed their gearbox casing to go along with that concept.

“We would buy that casing from them and use a totally different aero concept, which meant we are always compromised. So for a long time, we wanted to move to the Mercedes-type aerodynamic concept - not having a high rake, a lower rear end - but we just never had the financial resources to do it. We always had to carry things over.”

Maybe the ghost of Otmar's past should make a visit to the present Otmar to remind him what a hypocrite he is. Not only copying the concept costs money, which Haas clearly doesn't have and hasn't copied, but a lot of the concept is inherent in the packaging of the parts that you buy. What he's seeing is the salt of having a very competitive Ferrari engine. What a pathetic little person he is.

Best summarized by this IMO:

Teams accused of copying/sharing in the last five years or so:

• Red Bull/AlphaTauri

• Ferrari/Haas

• Mercedes/Racing Point

Teams actually found guilty of copying/sharing in the last five years or so:

• Racing Point

Please move if this discussion is better suited to another thread

[zioture]

[hollus]

Yeah, “that discussion” is better suited for the team thread. Too much pain to move it while limited to my smartphone, so, please, just move on to the team thread to continue.

Pro-trick: users can do that themselves. You simply quote the post in question in the team thread, then reply here linking to that post in the team thread and add “we can continue this discussion in the team thread”. It works wonders and moves the flow after 2-3 posts, which is totally cool!
I never understood why posters in this forum seem to be so allergic to doing that, when it happens all the time in other forums.

And now back to the usual program of red car hardware with a pinch of off topic…

[SiLo]

https://twitter.com/Graftechweb/status/ ... 5333732354

https://twitter.com/Graftechweb/status/ ... 3999278092

So they have reduced the volume of the diffuser? I wonder if they have contra-rotating flow from either side and having them separated a little longer is better?

[saviour stivala]

In the old days of ground-effect cars there were only two ways to get over any porpoising problems that showed up, one was by restricting the venturi inlet and the other by expanding its outlet. By doing so one would lose some down force but could result in faster laptime.