Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes MP4-24

[nudger]

Does anybody know: whitmarsh said thursday mcl had a small diffuser update and other little updates to the car. Today lewis said they brought nothing new to bahrain. I'm confused...

i think you can read Lewis' comment as nothing "significant". never a race goes by when they dont make some updates

[roost89]

Heikki still isn't using the newer front wing. The cascade wings Lewis' front wing look to be almost forming a bridge-wing a-la Ferrari 2007/8

[gibells]

Question to all you hotshots. Although Macs is on the back foot for this year, don't you think they are leading the development of Kers (which will be mandatory next year), and therefore furthest ahead in preparation for next year? I mean of the current leaders Brawn, Redbull and Toyota will have to make Kers work. Also, is it the car or Hami which seems to be least effected by Kers on the brakes?

Good showing on the weekend. =D>

[JamesS]

Question to all you hotshots. Although Macs is on the back foot for this year, don't you think they are leading the development of Kers (which will be mandatory next year), and therefore furthest ahead in preparation for next year? I mean of the current leaders Brawn, Redbull and Toyota will have to make Kers work. Also, is it the car or Hami which seems to be least effected by Kers on the brakes?

Good showing on the weekend. =D>

It's something I've thought about. If McLaren can make their aero work within the next 3-4 races, with their (so far) reliable KERS they will be a formidable force and all the current leaders will be scrambling to fit KERS to keep their title hopes alive.

The future of KERS though is far from certain, with many teams and individuals dead set against it.

[ISLAMATRON]

The future of KERS is very much in doubt, it could be banned or it could be increased in its power output... and if that happens the battery solution may no longer be the best and everybody might switch to the flywheel one... McLaren may be in the lead now in terms of KERS but I dont think it means much for next year, unless the KERS regs stay the same.

And with new tires & a refueling ban on the horizon getting the car balance for next year right is the key.

[nudger]

The future of KERS is very much in doubt, it could be banned or it could be increased in its power output... and if that happens the battery solution may no longer be the best and everybody might switch to the flywheel one... McLaren may be in the lead now in terms of KERS but I dont think it means much for next year, unless the KERS regs stay the same.

And with new tires & a refueling ban on the horizon getting the car balance for next year right is the key.

which was precisely the point Stefano Domenicali was making recently when talking of the mess the fia is making of the regulations.
Mclaren has developed a car based on kers, they have invested large sums in the kers technology...all on the understanding that it was optional in 09, but mandatory in 2010. nothing was said about a standard unit.
so now if mosley either bans it, or introduces a standard unit, mclaren have wasted 10s of millions and an entire season bringing this technology to the race track...doing as mosley wanted!
jeeze i hope someone has the balls to stand agaist him in the election.

[ISLAMATRON]

which was precisely the point Stefano Domenicali was making recently when talking of the mess the fia is making of the regulations.
Mclaren has developed a car based on kers, they have invested large sums in the kers technology...all on the understanding that it was optional in 09, but mandatory in 2010. nothing was said about a standard unit.
so now if mosley either bans it, or introduces a standard unit, mclaren have wasted 10s of millions and an entire season bringing this technology to the race track...doing as mosley wanted!
jeeze i hope someone has the balls to stand agaist him in the election.

It is not Mosley trying to ban it or standardize it it is only Flavio doing so at this point.

Mosley is pushing for it to be made stronger
Please read and inform yourself before replying.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73208

Mosley: "To me it makes no sense that a big team will spend millions and millions of pounds on a gearbox which is just refining, and complain of spending less money on KERS that is cutting-edge technology."

"We would like to up the amount of energy stored and up the rate of energy flow. At the moment it is 400 kilojoules stored, and it is 60 kilowatts in and out. We would like to see 800 kilojoules stored - twice as much – and we would like to have perhaps up to 150 kilowatts in and 100 kilowatts out. That would then put it into a category of a device that if you fitted it to a road car, you would be able to absorb all the energy when the car is braking hard – except in really extreme braking. And that is what is missing."

"The thing that I cannot accept is that you standardize something like KERS while competing with the gearboxes and the wheel nuts and uprights and all the other things that should be standardized."

[DaveKillens]

Question to all you hotshots. Although Macs is on the back foot for this year, don't you think they are leading the development of Kers (which will be mandatory next year), and therefore furthest ahead in preparation for next year? I mean of the current leaders Brawn, Redbull and Toyota will have to make Kers work. Also, is it the car or Hami which seems to be least effected by Kers on the brakes?

Good showing on the weekend. =D>

McLaren have been developing KERS quietly and efficiently. They appear to have the most mature system going, because it does not appear to give problems, and delivers as specified when the driver asks. Not like the Ferrari system, that has attracted attention by lack of reliability and the occasional cloud of smoke.
KERS has the potential to unbalance any car when it activates it's braking program. But the engineers are aware of this, and have taken measures to try to retain the balance of the car when KERS kicks in or out. I doubt the driver is that aware when the system kicks in. And if so, then he must experience oversteer when KERS is drawing power from the rear axle, when braking and turning into a corner. I haven't noticed it on the Mclaren, so I must assume they have the entire braking balance sorted out. Or maybe they just have a position indicator on the steering wheel shaft, and turns the KERS off whenever steering angle is anything but dead ahead.

[Metar]

I'm with Mosley on this one, if and only if the other parts aren't standardised either. Also, didn't Luca di Montezemolo also call for a ban on KERS?


Standardizing KERS will be a stupid move. In the oh-so-distant future of electric engines, KERS systems will make the biggest difference in mileage (or range) of a car - and F1 can directly develop it, by researching and deploying safer, lighter, more efficient systems: Just like those under development now.

In the more pressing present, it'll also mean every team on the grid wasted money on it - even Brawn and Williams, who bothered developing one but didn't race it (yet?). It's hugely expensive, and currently not enough of an advantage to be used by most teams - but scrapping it completely would be daft.

[lkocev]

Question to all you hotshots. Although Macs is on the back foot for this year, don't you think they are leading the development of Kers (which will be mandatory next year), and therefore furthest ahead in preparation for next year? I mean of the current leaders Brawn, Redbull and Toyota will have to make Kers work. Also, is it the car or Hami which seems to be least effected by Kers on the brakes?

Good showing on the weekend. =D>

McLaren have been developing KERS quietly and efficiently. They appear to have the most mature system going, because it does not appear to give problems, and delivers as specified when the driver asks. Not like the Ferrari system, that has attracted attention by lack of reliability and the occasional cloud of smoke.
KERS has the potential to unbalance any car when it activates it's braking program. But the engineers are aware of this, and have taken measures to try to retain the balance of the car when KERS kicks in or out. I doubt the driver is that aware when the system kicks in. And if so, then he must experience oversteer when KERS is drawing power from the rear axle, when braking and turning into a corner. I haven't noticed it on the Mclaren, so I must assume they have the entire braking balance sorted out. Or maybe they just have a position indicator on the steering wheel shaft, and turns the KERS off whenever steering angle is anything but dead ahead.

If the maximum charging rate of KERS is also 60kW, then maybe they have reduced the power of the rear braking system by about that much to compensate?

[timbo]

If the maximum charging rate of KERS is also 60kW, then maybe they have reduced the power of the rear braking system by about that much to compensate?

If my calculations are correct, in 4g braking braking power is more than 1500 kW. I don't think 60 kW from KERS is upsetting balance that much. OTOH if the driver is very close to locking rear brakes it may become critical, but I haven't seen rear wheel lock-up very often (notably except Massa in Bahrein 2006).

[xpensive]

Your numbers are accurate timbo, a 650 kg object reducing its speed from 288 km/h to 144 km/h at 4g, loses 1560 kJ of energy in one sec, or a rate of more than 1500 kW on average.

Amazing, at first I didn't belive myself really.

[Metar]

We have to remember, though, that the KERS' brakes are nowhere near as powerful, nor offer the same precision... It does mean, however, that an optimal system would charge up to the maximum allowed in just a third of a second - and at the highest speeds, downforce should prevent the rear for destabilizing, even if the system could harness just, say, 200kW. Two seconds of braking at high speeds is easy to achieve, but it begs the question: Does the KERS-loader stop working once it's full? Does it work at any speed, or can it be programmes to work only if the speed is above Xkm/h?

[xpensive]

The way I have understood things, you can charge as much enery as you like to the battery, limited to a maximum rate of 60 kW, while you are only allowed to spend 400 kJ per lap at the same max rate, 60 kW.

The other thing in the example, is that a part of the loss is also wind-resistance, from 500 kW at 288 km/h to 60 at 144.

[kilcoo316]

It would make much more sense to limit the charging power of the KERS to reduce the upset on brake balance.


You've a whole lap to recover the energy in, why rush?


I guess it is probably one of the things the teams tune already through a weekend.