2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[JPower]

Newey is confident RedBull will have the legs on ferrari and dominate. I don't know what Newey sees or doesn't see in the F175 but he feels his car has more more potential.

I would be surprised if he didn't feel that way.

I don't think that means much at this point though. We have no clue what Ferrari is going to address going forward.

[dialtone]

Newey is confident RedBull will have the legs on ferrari and dominate. I don't know what Newey sees or doesn't see in the F175 but he feels his car has more more potential.

He's a smart dude, that RB-18 is impressive for sure. I also trust Ferrari to improve the car as well. Rest of the reason will tell the story.

[AR3-GP]

Updates doesn't give the car credit to be the best. It is what it is.
That's like Mercedes claiming to be the best car because they have not had an update.

Ferrari have been fortunate that Redbull has had operational issues so far. Today Max was clearly easily managing the gap. Checo also very competitive with 30hp less than Sainz.
I do not expect much for the next race if nothing is done about the top speed. Additional Max made errors that cost him pole.

Checo had 30hp less than Sainz for 4-5 laps. He had all the engine power at the end.

47: https://i.imgur.com/dLhhiPX.jpeg (equal SAI, +3kph on VER)
48: https://i.imgur.com/Wm1jTWF.jpeg (+8 on SAI, +6 on VER)
49: https://i.imgur.com/l9QGoEf.jpeg (DRS from here, +20 SAI, +23 VER)
50: https://i.imgur.com/KXh8wZg.jpeg (+30 SAI, +23 VER)
51: https://i.imgur.com/2NaZrpQ.jpeg (+32 SAI, +27 VER)
52: https://i.imgur.com/3u8ESP2.jpeg (failed pass attempt, -4 SAI, -2 VER)
53: https://i.imgur.com/JHl4l4h.jpeg (no DRS from here, +6 SAI, +3 VER)
54: https://i.imgur.com/87UssFs.jpeg (+5 SAI, +1 VER)
55: https://i.imgur.com/eR6Grmm.jpeg (+4 SAI, +4 VER)
56: https://i.imgur.com/b5fpiqK.jpeg (+2 SAI, +3 VER)
57: https://i.imgur.com/StG4cAS.jpeg (+1 SAI, 0 VER)

With or without DRS, near or far from SAI (after the failed pass attempt) he was faster than SAI and, more importantly, VER. RedBull should consider having this engine issue on Verstappen's car if the result is 3-4kph gain.

I think you are misinterpreting the data. Checo's power loss occured before the first pitstop and remained to the end of the race. You are incorrect to use a top speed comparison because top speed is dominated by drag, not a +-30hp. Otherwise Ferrari would have more top speed since they have about 10-20hp more than RB.

The biggest impact of the power loss on Checo's laptime is coming from the time that it takes to reach the drag limited terminal velocity. Horner said the issue cost Perez 0.5 second per lap. We can't just make up facts. The team reported the issue remained until the end of the race. He didnt "have all the power at the end" because dialtone said so

[ringo]

Thanks for the interpretation. Sometimes it gets tiring explaining some of this stuff while being bashed because of emotional reflexes. But I am glad the team did quote 0.5 seconds.
Visually I could see the RB is two steps ahead.
Suspension and the aero efficiency.
It's not impossible for Ferrari to overcome however. The allocation of resource should be made. They should not allow RB to get away with the championship after such a strong start.

[dialtone]

Updates doesn't give the car credit to be the best. It is what it is.
That's like Mercedes claiming to be the best car because they have not had an update.

Ferrari have been fortunate that Redbull has had operational issues so far. Today Max was clearly easily managing the gap. Checo also very competitive with 30hp less than Sainz.
I do not expect much for the next race if nothing is done about the top speed. Additional Max made errors that cost him pole.

Checo had 30hp less than Sainz for 4-5 laps. He had all the engine power at the end.

47: https://i.imgur.com/dLhhiPX.jpeg (equal SAI, +3kph on VER)
48: https://i.imgur.com/Wm1jTWF.jpeg (+8 on SAI, +6 on VER)
49: https://i.imgur.com/l9QGoEf.jpeg (DRS from here, +20 SAI, +23 VER)
50: https://i.imgur.com/KXh8wZg.jpeg (+30 SAI, +23 VER)
51: https://i.imgur.com/2NaZrpQ.jpeg (+32 SAI, +27 VER)
52: https://i.imgur.com/3u8ESP2.jpeg (failed pass attempt, -4 SAI, -2 VER)
53: https://i.imgur.com/JHl4l4h.jpeg (no DRS from here, +6 SAI, +3 VER)
54: https://i.imgur.com/87UssFs.jpeg (+5 SAI, +1 VER)
55: https://i.imgur.com/eR6Grmm.jpeg (+4 SAI, +4 VER)
56: https://i.imgur.com/b5fpiqK.jpeg (+2 SAI, +3 VER)
57: https://i.imgur.com/StG4cAS.jpeg (+1 SAI, 0 VER)

With or without DRS, near or far from SAI (after the failed pass attempt) he was faster than SAI and, more importantly, VER. RedBull should consider having this engine issue on Verstappen's car if the result is 3-4kph gain.

I think you are misinterpreting the data. Checo's power loss occured before the first pitstop and remained to the end of the race. You are incorrect to use a top speed comparison because top speed is dominated by drag, not a +-30hp. Otherwise Ferrari would have more top speed since they have about 10-20hp more than RB.

The biggest impact of the power loss on Checo's laptime is coming from the time that it takes to reach the drag limited terminal velocity. Horner said the issue cost Perez 0.5 second per lap. We can't just make up facts. The team reported the issue remained until the end of the race. He didnt "have all the power at the end" because dialtone said so

Here's another comparison:


Lap 11 vs 54 for Checo. Similar distance from Sainz in front (a bit more than 1s) with no DRS, tyres about the same age too. Fuel load is main difference.

I still don't see 30hp difference in power curve here, maybe something missing above 300kph, but acceleration up to 280+kph seems the same.

[dialtone]

Here's a fun one, 2019 Monza. Ferrari 2019 engine is rumored to be about 30hp more than Merc:



Lap 50, LEC v BOT. Bottas has DRS and yet it's only 6kph faster into Ascari, but is actually slower on the finish line straight despite the DRS.

[AR3-GP]

Checo had 30hp less than Sainz for 4-5 laps. He had all the engine power at the end.

47: https://i.imgur.com/dLhhiPX.jpeg (equal SAI, +3kph on VER)
48: https://i.imgur.com/Wm1jTWF.jpeg (+8 on SAI, +6 on VER)
49: https://i.imgur.com/l9QGoEf.jpeg (DRS from here, +20 SAI, +23 VER)
50: https://i.imgur.com/KXh8wZg.jpeg (+30 SAI, +23 VER)
51: https://i.imgur.com/2NaZrpQ.jpeg (+32 SAI, +27 VER)
52: https://i.imgur.com/3u8ESP2.jpeg (failed pass attempt, -4 SAI, -2 VER)
53: https://i.imgur.com/JHl4l4h.jpeg (no DRS from here, +6 SAI, +3 VER)
54: https://i.imgur.com/87UssFs.jpeg (+5 SAI, +1 VER)
55: https://i.imgur.com/eR6Grmm.jpeg (+4 SAI, +4 VER)
56: https://i.imgur.com/b5fpiqK.jpeg (+2 SAI, +3 VER)
57: https://i.imgur.com/StG4cAS.jpeg (+1 SAI, 0 VER)

With or without DRS, near or far from SAI (after the failed pass attempt) he was faster than SAI and, more importantly, VER. RedBull should consider having this engine issue on Verstappen's car if the result is 3-4kph gain.

I think you are misinterpreting the data. Checo's power loss occured before the first pitstop and remained to the end of the race. You are incorrect to use a top speed comparison because top speed is dominated by drag, not a +-30hp. Otherwise Ferrari would have more top speed since they have about 10-20hp more than RB.

The biggest impact of the power loss on Checo's laptime is coming from the time that it takes to reach the drag limited terminal velocity. Horner said the issue cost Perez 0.5 second per lap. We can't just make up facts. The team reported the issue remained until the end of the race. He didnt "have all the power at the end" because dialtone said so

Here's another comparison:

https://i.imgur.com/dNCi238.jpeg
Lap 11 vs 54 for Checo. Similar distance from Sainz in front (a bit more than 1s) with no DRS, tyres about the same age too. Fuel load is main difference.

I still don't see 30hp difference in power curve here, maybe something missing above 300kph, but acceleration up to 280+kph seems the same.

Are you legitamately trying to compare 90kg of fuel atleast on lap 11, to less than 10kg of fuel on lap 54? Do you have any idea how much laptime that's worth? Seconds. Coming from the corners and the straights.

The lap 54 curve should be well ahead of the lap 11 curve due to fuel mass alone at the same power. F = ma. A 10% reduction of mass (roughly speaking from near full tanks to final laps) leads to a 10% increase in acceleration at speeds (someone correct me if I pulled that out of my rear ). The fact that it's detuned is why they are similar.

[dialtone]

I think you are misinterpreting the data. Checo's power loss occured before the first pitstop and remained to the end of the race. You are incorrect to use a top speed comparison because top speed is dominated by drag, not a +-30hp. Otherwise Ferrari would have more top speed since they have about 10-20hp more than RB.

The biggest impact of the power loss on Checo's laptime is coming from the time that it takes to reach the drag limited terminal velocity. Horner said the issue cost Perez 0.5 second per lap. We can't just make up facts. The team reported the issue remained until the end of the race. He didnt "have all the power at the end" because dialtone said so

Here's another comparison:

https://i.imgur.com/dNCi238.jpeg
Lap 11 vs 54 for Checo. Similar distance from Sainz in front (a bit more than 1s) with no DRS, tyres about the same age too. Fuel load is main difference.

I still don't see 30hp difference in power curve here, maybe something missing above 300kph, but acceleration up to 280+kph seems the same.

Are you legitamately trying to compare 90kg of fuel atleast on lap 11, to less than 10kg of fuel on lap 54? Do you have any idea how much laptime that's worth? Seconds. Coming from the corners and the straights.

The lap 54 curve should be well ahead of the lap 11 curve due to fuel mass alone at the same power. F = ma. A 10% reduction of mass (roughly speaking from near full tanks to final laps) leads to a 10% increase in acceleration at speeds (someone correct me if I pulled that out of my rear ). The fact that it's detuned is why they are similar.

I'm just saying it's not 30hp. It may be missing something as you say, most probably not 30hp.

[JPower]

There's really no need to keep litigating this. Perez was down on power with a tire advantage and Sainz was able to hold him off on old hards.

Perez had his shot. Didn't make it work.

[dialtone]

Now that I think about it more though... F1DataAnalytics (if I recall correctly) should take the 30hp quoted by Horner and check what he gets in engine power comparison, could be a good opportunity to tune the parameters.

[Sevach]

Here's a fun one, 2019 Monza. Ferrari 2019 engine is rumored to be about 30hp more than Merc:

https://i.imgur.com/zE0aArH.png

Lap 50, LEC v BOT. Bottas has DRS and yet it's only 6kph faster into Ascari, but is actually slower on the finish line straight despite the DRS.

Something to keep in mind Monza DRS is lesser than "normal" DRS.
Still impressive, tow, less drag...

I feel like Checo lost something, he was coming out of the corners faster(lighter car) and and finishing the straights same or slower.

[PlatinumZealot]

Now that I think about it more though... F1DataAnalytics (if I recall correctly) should take the 30hp quoted by Horner and check what he gets in engine power comparison, could be a good opportunity to tune the parameters.

Well a nice round number was quoted by Horner. 20 kW. And anything from Horner's gullet sure as hell aint accurate enough for input into any model.

Take that 20kW with a grain of salt.

[CaribouBread]

Wonder if their upgrade package for the next race will address their tyre wear woes

[Jambier]

Ferrari really need an upgrade, Red Bull is unbeatable now, each race they are faster

[Andi76]

Newey is confident RedBull will have the legs on ferrari and dominate. I don't know what Newey sees or doesn't see in the F175 but he feels his car has more more potential.

If you listen to Ferrari engineers, they basically say the same. And when two cars are as close together as Red Bull and Ferrari are, the designer will always tell you he feels his car has more potential.

Anyway - before Imola everyone said Ferrari will dominate the championship and they have the best car. Now Red Bull suddenly is said to be the one to dominate and to have the best car. The fact is that both cars are close in terms of pace and laptime and that small things make the difference. This can clearly be seen in the fact that, in Miami, the duell between Red Bull and Ferrari ended 1-1. Both had issues, Ferrari with tyres, Perez a few hps less and Verstappen has beaten Leclerc, while Sainz has beaten Perez. Ferrari usually is better in qualifying conditions, while Red Bull usually is in race conditions. So its two cars very close together, everything else is sensationalist journalism, exaggeraion or fan-boy talk, but not the reality.

If one car is better in qualifying and the other in race conditions, no one dominates the other or has the better car. Its obviouly small things that make the difference. The drivers themselves, tyres, set-up etc. and things are also track dependant.

Ferrari will now bring its first major updates to Barcelona and also loose some weight. Weight alone is laptime. Also Ferraris approach in this regard not to make changes for changes sake, makes it highly likely that it will be a step forward.

As Ferrari is leading both championships, still being faster in qualifying(what usually is the indicator for the cars "real" speed and potential)without any significant upgrade, while its main rival has already introduced two upgrades and, as history has proven, its easier for the best quali-car to gain race-pace than the other way around- the reality is that they are in a very good position. Everything else is just the usual sensationalist journalism, exaggeration and fan-boy talk. It was the same after Australia where Ferrari finished 40 sec. ahead of Red Bull. Most people had written of Red Bull and words like "Ferrari-Domination" were used...obviously things can change from race to race. Because both cars are close together in reality. And small things and one upgrade can make the difference.