2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Rodak]

It is confrimed as just bumps in the road and poor suspension.

My sim experience is that it has always been like that. You can trigger lasting oscillations if your f/r settings harmonize.

Like an early Porche 924.

Sim experience is a game, not real life... Every actually drive an open wheel race car? You're in for a surprise.

[Andi76]

It was front suspension related, from both drivers. So not the same problem of porpoising.
The heave spring was changed on George's car during FP1, so might be a case of running too stiff.

Timo Glock noticed its porpoising again, even if i do not think this was the case as Monaco is too slow for any of the cars to actually have a problem with porpoising. But i do think that Monaco will show what i said after Barcelona, which was that Mercedes has not really made progress compared to Ferrari and Red Bull, was right. They are still 0,6-1 second slower and still Topspeed is lower. If they really solved porpoising will only be seen in the next race, as in Barcelona no car had serious issues(probably because they all knew a how to solve that problem on a well known track like Barcelona)and Monaco is just too slow.

Different conditions. Barcelona was hot. In these conditions air is more sparse. Monaco is a coastal city-state and the temperature is low. Air is denser, thus almost everyone is suffering with porpoising. Daniel even crashed because of it. The track is also bumpier. That's a concern. Mercedes' suspension is much more linear and rebounds like a rodeo horse, instead of one from a dressage. Suspension itself, along with the bumps, is creating flow separation and severe hysteresis. Short term solution would be to run a soft setup.

For myself porpoising is an aerodynamic phenomenon caused by several things. It was explained many, many times, so i think there is no need to get further into this again. In Monaco its completely suspension related bouncing, so no porpoising in my book. Your explanation nailed it, thank you for that, but i would not call this porpoising. This was good old grounding, not porpoising. Anyway Monaco so far made it obvious, in my opinion at least, that Mercedes is still far away from Red Bull and Ferrari in terms of pace and the "Barcelona-sucess" was misinterpreted by a lot of people. There is no doubt that the Mercedes team itself is still one of the best in F1. Of course they do a better job and find better solutions on a well known track like Barcelona than Haas or Alpine. But at the end of the day they were still 0.6 to 1.0 seconds behind Red Bull and Ferrari. The performance so far in Monaco suggests that the step in Barcelona was indeed not as big as a lot of people thought and the car still has a lot of issues. Its performance aero-wise and also in terms of suspension is far from being able to give us a championship fight with three teams involved the gap between these teams has not really changed a lot if you look closely.

[Spoutnik]

[De Jokke]

That's why I support Lewis! Through thick and thin with merc!

[214270]

Engine related but probably a team topic:

https://www.ft.com/content/34ca7e31-11d ... d7130c4cb5

Mercedes considers culling F1 engine client
(Team that supplies McLaren, Williams and Aston Martin says leasing to rivals is no longer “compelling”)

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff said new spending rules have put one of its three Formula One customers at risk of being culled, because the German manufacturer is no longer earning “substantial amounts” from producing engines for its rivals

“Unfortunately, the business of leasing engines is not compelling and interesting because the [governing body] FIA has put in a certain limit that you can charge to your customers, in order to protect the smaller teams,” Wolff said, adding that the Mercedes team itself accounted for the bulk of its profits, which amounted to just under £14mn last year.

Mercedes supplies rivals McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams with engines designed by its high-performance unit in Brixworth, UK. All teams have been subject to increasingly restrictive cost caps over the past two seasons, as F1 owner Liberty Media seeks to narrow the financial gap between the most and least successful outfits.

After winning eight constructor’s championships in a row, Mercedes has struggled with its car this season, losing pace to frontrunners Red Bull and Ferrari. Its clients also faced difficulties in getting ahead of their closest rivals in the middle of the pack during some early races.

Wolff said the production of two engines apiece for three other teams was a burden for Mercedes, whose engineers have been preoccupied with developing upgrades to the cars for its drivers Lewis Hamilton and George Russell.

“I’d rather have six [client cars], push the development further down the line and then make two engines less, because you need to produce two less plus two spares for every team,” he said.

“In an ideal world, I would maybe see us plus two [customers], so actually downsize a bit,” he added, but did not elaborate on which client Mercedes was likely to drop. The relationship between Mercedes and McLaren is the oldest of the three, dating back decades, albeit with a six-year gap.

Wolff’s comments come as Mercedes’ German rivals Porsche and Audi — both VW subsidiaries — are poised to enter F1, in time for rule changes in 2026 that would increase the amount of electric power generation in cars.

One of the VW-owned brands could team up with McLaren, depriving Mercedes of a leasing customer, according to people familiar with the plans.

[johnny comelately]

Re FP3: Sorry and with due respect but the Mercedes are looking (performing) like a camel (a horse designed by a committee)

[Swed3120]

Engine related but probably a team topic:

https://www.ft.com/content/34ca7e31-11d ... d7130c4cb5

Mercedes considers culling F1 engine client
(Team that supplies McLaren, Williams and Aston Martin says leasing to rivals is no longer “compelling”)

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff said new spending rules have put one of its three Formula One customers at risk of being culled, because the German manufacturer is no longer earning “substantial amounts” from producing engines for its rivals

“Unfortunately, the business of leasing engines is not compelling and interesting because the [governing body] FIA has put in a certain limit that you can charge to your customers, in order to protect the smaller teams,” Wolff said, adding that the Mercedes team itself accounted for the bulk of its profits, which amounted to just under £14mn last year.

Mercedes supplies rivals McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams with engines designed by its high-performance unit in Brixworth, UK. All teams have been subject to increasingly restrictive cost caps over the past two seasons, as F1 owner Liberty Media seeks to narrow the financial gap between the most and least successful outfits.

After winning eight constructor’s championships in a row, Mercedes has struggled with its car this season, losing pace to frontrunners Red Bull and Ferrari. Its clients also faced difficulties in getting ahead of their closest rivals in the middle of the pack during some early races.

Wolff said the production of two engines apiece for three other teams was a burden for Mercedes, whose engineers have been preoccupied with developing upgrades to the cars for its drivers Lewis Hamilton and George Russell.

“I’d rather have six [client cars], push the development further down the line and then make two engines less, because you need to produce two less plus two spares for every team,” he said.

“In an ideal world, I would maybe see us plus two [customers], so actually downsize a bit,” he added, but did not elaborate on which client Mercedes was likely to drop. The relationship between Mercedes and McLaren is the oldest of the three, dating back decades, albeit with a six-year gap.

Wolff’s comments come as Mercedes’ German rivals Porsche and Audi — both VW subsidiaries — are poised to enter F1, in time for rule changes in 2026 that would increase the amount of electric power generation in cars.

One of the VW-owned brands could team up with McLaren, depriving Mercedes of a leasing customer, according to people familiar with the plans.

No wonder, it doesn’t look good to your sponsors when a customer team (McLaren) is occasionally outperforming the factory entry

[214270]

Engine related but probably a team topic:

https://www.ft.com/content/34ca7e31-11d ... d7130c4cb5

Mercedes considers culling F1 engine client
(Team that supplies McLaren, Williams and Aston Martin says leasing to rivals is no longer “compelling”)

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff said new spending rules have put one of its three Formula One customers at risk of being culled, because the German manufacturer is no longer earning “substantial amounts” from producing engines for its rivals

“Unfortunately, the business of leasing engines is not compelling and interesting because the [governing body] FIA has put in a certain limit that you can charge to your customers, in order to protect the smaller teams,” Wolff said, adding that the Mercedes team itself accounted for the bulk of its profits, which amounted to just under £14mn last year.

Mercedes supplies rivals McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams with engines designed by its high-performance unit in Brixworth, UK. All teams have been subject to increasingly restrictive cost caps over the past two seasons, as F1 owner Liberty Media seeks to narrow the financial gap between the most and least successful outfits.

After winning eight constructor’s championships in a row, Mercedes has struggled with its car this season, losing pace to frontrunners Red Bull and Ferrari. Its clients also faced difficulties in getting ahead of their closest rivals in the middle of the pack during some early races.

Wolff said the production of two engines apiece for three other teams was a burden for Mercedes, whose engineers have been preoccupied with developing upgrades to the cars for its drivers Lewis Hamilton and George Russell.

“I’d rather have six [client cars], push the development further down the line and then make two engines less, because you need to produce two less plus two spares for every team,” he said.

“In an ideal world, I would maybe see us plus two [customers], so actually downsize a bit,” he added, but did not elaborate on which client Mercedes was likely to drop. The relationship between Mercedes and McLaren is the oldest of the three, dating back decades, albeit with a six-year gap.

Wolff’s comments come as Mercedes’ German rivals Porsche and Audi — both VW subsidiaries — are poised to enter F1, in time for rule changes in 2026 that would increase the amount of electric power generation in cars.

One of the VW-owned brands could team up with McLaren, depriving Mercedes of a leasing customer, according to people familiar with the plans.

No wonder, it doesn’t look good to your sponsors when a customer team (McLaren) is occasionally outperforming the factory entry

Sponsors??

Where in the article is that mentioned?

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Wolff 's language is scripted. It's an act to lull Audi even more. Even with the cost of the engines, the development is limited so that's definitely way less than it was before and he was not complaining in the past.

[wogx]

[lh13]

Like sore throat or something?

[AA_2019]

LH behind Russell again.
Why did he wait so long to do his fast lap on fresh tyres at the end? (first run in Q3 was on used tyres)
We all know there is usually a red flag or yellow due to a crash near the end of qualy at Monaco.
Need to learn from the past eg the Nico qualy incident from a few years ago at Monaco

[214270]

^ They went out at the same time. I think it was single warm-up lap vs double, HAM was about to start his flyer; then came the Red.

[silver]

LH behind Russell again.
Why did he wait so long to do his fast lap on fresh tyres at the end? (first run in Q3 was on used tyres)
We all know there is usually a red flag or yellow due to a crash near the end of qualy at Monaco.
Need to learn from the past eg the Nico qualy incident from a few years ago at Monaco

Hamilton made a mistake while he was going for his push lap and Russell was behind him and completed a lap that put him in front of Hamilton. So Hamilton is himself to blame. Even on his last push lap after the aborted lap, he was down by 2 tenths to Russell in S1 and a tenth down in S2 when the red flag came.

[mvfad]

I think Hamilton has more difficulty in reaching the ideal tire temperature than Russell (for hotlap). And the Russell always feels more comfortable under braking, too.

"Lucky" for Mercedes is that they have two very talented drivers. Because this car is terrible to drive.