2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

[dialtone]

Only now managed to build the telemetry:

Race gap:


Of course congratulations RedBull, not a mistake and a bit of luck which we'll see later. From this gap a few things are really obvious:

* LEC was a lot faster until lap 15, in fact almost 0.6s per lap faster.
* PER was slowing down VER a bit, and SAI went long in the swimming pool chicane at lap 7 I think which lost him 1s and he slowly rebuilt that lead.
* PER built his victory on lap 16 (inl)-17(outl)-18 with 1.48.1, 1.32.1, 1.25.2 (285.4s) against LEC 1.32.1, 1.31.4, 1.50.8 (294.3s), where he basically gained almost full 10s on LEC, had LEC stopped 1 lap earlier we would be talking about a different race but SAI was meant to cover and he refused.
* SAI losing that 1s on lap 7 will end up being one critical piece of the loss
* The ALO train was pretty embarassing and IMHO the reason why this track shouldn't be around any more. ALO was 4s a lap slower than the top teams and 3s slower than Lando or Russell, in no race you should be allowed to be 4s slower per lap and maintain your place for more than a handful of laps.
* NOR was on an absolute hunt, his last few laps were unreal compared to the rest of the grid, however even he had to surrender to this track unable to pass Russell, despite the clear pace advantage.

Now... Everyone knows Ferrari messed up calling LEC in for pitting with SAI already there however 2 things happened that you all already know about, SAI and LAT:


You can probably tell where the pass happened, just to compare how much slower he was, here's SAI v SAI in following laps:


Granted he isn't really 5.8s slower due to LAT, but he's definitely losing more than 2 seconds. The big correction at the end of the SAI lap is when he attempted to pass PER but almost lost it, huge correction.

And the second thing that happened is LEC v ALB:


You can tell that LEC was behind ALB because S2 and S3 are basically the same times, LEC was trying to pass in whatever way, going further along, braking later but it's just too hard here. So this lap was instrumental in allowing VER to gain significant time to LEC which eventually meant that LEC was too close to VER and with the strategy mistake of calling in LEC, VER was able to pass LEC. By my count Albon was shown almost 20 blue flags and he ignored each one of them.

https://streamja.com/P5bk5

Congratulations to RedBull for the victory, sad day for Ferrari fans like me, but I think the strategy issue, while obviously there, isn't the main protagonist in what happened in the end... Can't catch a beak...

[chrisc90]

This the the pit entry, not exit though...

Same paragraph and wording is used in the ISC chapter IV Appendix L for both ENTRY and EXIT

The line on the track is pit entry…only if you are entering the pits.

I did elaborate on that point regarding pit entry in a earlier comment.

[the poster below]

The rules are written in a way that allows for interpretation. If the rule makers wanted it to be clear cut, then they could make it that any tyre-to-line contact was "crossing". Or that having the outermost part of the tyre vertically overlie a plane in the middle of the painted line was crossing, or various other scenarios.

I interpret it that they "crossed" the line in the same way that drivers cut corners but haven't left the track. I don't think they really gained significantly (not speaking as a RB fan), so it's a question of whether to penalise for the letter of the law being broken if that's the case.

As always, we just want consistency and it's always lacking. And they appear to have failed to account for other events that had a greater impact on the final race order, what can you do

We are talking about a 10cm wide stripe here. Try defining all the different stripes in the rules to the exact edge or an exact location on its surface. That is frankly way over the top and overshoots the goal. The intent here is to keep pit exit traffic separated from the racing traffic.

I would agree with you if this was a discussion about a technical regulation. Regarding sporting regulation, I think the interpretation with the most common sense was given to the involved rule. I do not think we had such a case yet, where a driver touches the line but does not cross it. Can't be consistent on things that happen for the first time.

Yes, I think we are in agreement although perhaps that didn't come across in what I wrote.

My preference (possibly as a result of my job) would be to define what is meant by crossing, but I agree that a strict application of the rule in this case is not justified by the overall intention of the rule.

I think the difficulty comes in where a grey area of a rule is exploited further and further as a result of initial lack of defined limits, until there's an incident where they are forced to decide where the (metaphorical) line actually is to set a precedent that should in reality should have been defined in the rule in the first place.

If the goal is to separate pit exit traffic from race traffic, perhaps no tyres should be allowed to touch the line from either side? And then there are the edge cases like race start and so on...

Sorry if I've not really added anything here. It just feels more frustrating to have an unclear rule instead of no rule at all.

[chrisc90]

What do people make of drivers cutting the corner after the hairpin (right hander) by using the pavement. Track limits?

[tpe]

Red Bull could have hook line and sinkered them with this photo from Saudi.

https://i.ibb.co/w77Rv18/284524799-5162 ... 6429-n.png


Would have been utterly stupid for this protest to be upheld. Desperation from Ferrari

This the the pit entry, not exit though...

Same paragraph and wording is used in the ISC chapter IV Appendix L for both ENTRY and EXIT

So, every driver should be penalized in Brazil every single year, right?

[f1jcw]

Okay, another matter how was the Williams drivers given no warning whatsoever for delaying the Ferrari's

[214270]

The rules are written in a way that allows for interpretation. If the rule makers wanted it to be clear cut, then they could make it that any tyre-to-line contact was "crossing". Or that having the outermost part of the tyre vertically overlie a plane in the middle of the painted line was crossing, or various other scenarios.

I interpret it that they "crossed" the line in the same way that drivers cut corners but haven't left the track. I don't think they really gained significantly (not speaking as a RB fan), so it's a question of whether to penalise for the letter of the law being broken if that's the case.

As always, we just want consistency and it's always lacking. And they appear to have failed to account for other events that had a greater impact on the final race order, what can you do

We are talking about a 10cm wide stripe here. Try defining all the different stripes in the rules to the exact edge or an exact location on its surface. That is frankly way over the top and overshoots the goal. The intent here is to keep pit exit traffic separated from the racing traffic.

I would agree with you if this was a discussion about a technical regulation. Regarding sporting regulation, I think the interpretation with the most common sense was given to the involved rule. I do not think we had such a case yet, where a driver touches the line but does not cross it. Can't be consistent on things that happen for the first time.

Yes, I think we are in agreement although perhaps that didn't come across in what I wrote.

My preference (possibly as a result of my job) would be to define what is meant by crossing, but I agree that a strict application of the rule in this case is not justified by the overall intention of the rule.

I think the difficulty comes in where a grey area of a rule is exploited further and further as a result of initial lack of defined limits, until there's an incident where they are forced to decide where the (metaphorical) line actually is to set a precedent that should in reality should have been defined in the rule in the first place.

If the goal is to separate pit exit traffic from race traffic, perhaps no tyres should be allowed to touch the line from either side? And then there are the edge cases like race start and so on...

Sorry if I've not really added anything here. It just feels more frustrating to have an unclear rule instead of no rule at all.

Your very point was addressed by the RD, hence the clarification. I think posters are commenting without understanding. The precise definition of crossing was raised, found to be ambiguous and as a result a clarification was issued - no touching. As a result of the sporting regs still referencing the ‘no crossing’ we have this predicament and stewards ruling.

Roll that forward and because of the latest decision, we are now left with a situation in which any sensible clarification holds no value because it may not match the sporting regs; and since the revisions to the sporting regs happen infrequently, between seasons the only thing worth referencing is the regs even though they may themselves be unclear.

[chrisc90]

This the the pit entry, not exit though...

Same paragraph and wording is used in the ISC chapter IV Appendix L for both ENTRY and EXIT

So, every driver should be penalized in Brazil every single year, right?

Same paragraph and wording is used in the ISC chapter IV Appendix L for both ENTRY and EXIT

The line on the track is pit entry…only if you are entering the pits.

I did elaborate on that point regarding pit entry in a earlier comment.

[Tvetovnato]

Changing of race director apparently has no influence on the farce that is F1. There is a systemic error somewhere that desperately needs correcting.

[falonso81]

Why are people arguing about the Red Bulls crossing the line or not? We have clear examples of Hamilton clearly crossing the pit entry line, the pit bollard but nothing happened. Why do you think something is going to happen now? FIA being FIA because, traditions.

[f1jcw]

Changing of race director apparently has no influence on the farce that is F1. There is a systemic error somewhere that desperately needs correcting.

As with Max Mosely and Bernie era it is still wrapped up with politics
Sporting rules should not be this hard to determine, do you have grey areas in football and rugby

[Shrieker]

So according to racefans, this was the rule last year, and it was changed.

From this:

“Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards), any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car leaving the pits.” (Emphasis added.)

To this:

“Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards), any tyre of a car exiting the pit lane must not cross any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pit lane from those on the track.” (Emphasis added.)

According to this change, the stewards are right in not penalizing Verstappen.

However, the rule change itself is as braindead as it gets. It is far, far easier to judge from footage whether a tyre touches an outboard line or not, rather than a line that has been fully crossed by the tire, and now is inboard in relation to the car.

[f1jcw]

Why are people arguing about the Red Bulls crossing the line or not? We have clear examples of Hamilton clearly crossing the pit entry line, the pit bollard but nothing happened. Why do you think something is going to happen now? FIA being FIA because, traditions.

1. Why bring Hamilton into it
2. What was pity entry got to do with exit
3. and while the result was not changed, he did get a reprimand

[f1jcw]

So according to racefans, this was the rule last year, and it was changed.

From this:

“Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards), any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car leaving the pits.” (Emphasis added.)

To this:

“Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards), any tyre of a car exiting the pit lane must not cross any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pit lane from those on the track.” (Emphasis added.)

According to this change, the stewards are right in not penalizing Verstappen.

However, the rule change itself is as braindead as it gets. It is far, far easier to judge from footage whether a tyre touches an outboard line, rather than line that has been fully crossed by the tire, and now is in inboard in relation to the car.

Plus the race notes from this event were copied from 2021 and not 2022


What has priority, race notes or rules

[chrisc90]

So according to racefans, this was the rule last year, and it was changed.

From this:

“Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards), any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car leaving the pits.” (Emphasis added.)

To this:

“Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards), any tyre of a car exiting the pit lane must not cross any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pit lane from those on the track.” (Emphasis added.)

According to this change, the stewards are right in not penalizing Verstappen.

However, the rule change itself is as braindead as it gets. It is far, far easier to judge from footage whether a tyre touches an outboard line or not, rather than a line that has been fully crossed by the tire, and now is in inboard in relation to the car.

What part of a car can possibly cross the line without the tyre crossing it first? Unless your at 90* angle to the line. Its physically impossible since the wheels are the widest point of the car.

The key word is still in the 2021 ruling......CROSSED.

Just like in football....you dont score a goal if the ball doesnt CROSS the goal line.

It does make a bit of a odd thing to try and police though if the camera angles cant give you a clear view of the inside edge of the tyre.