2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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MattWellsyWells
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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Does anyone know if there was a single overtake made after the 2nd red flag? I don't remember seeing any.

Not sure why Saudi has been brought up as it is irrelevant to this race but I think there was some confusion due to drivers being told they weren't allowed to cross the painted section near the end of the pit wall. People seemed to confuse this with the whole pit entry line but it was perfectly fine to cross the pit entry line if not coming into the pits just like Austria, Brazil etc.

Also, I can't believe the Sky commentary team didn't pick up on Perez overtaking Leclerc when they pitted for inters! I could see at the time that this was a change for the lead and probably the race win and was screaming at the TV but they just didn't seem to notice!

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214270
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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jz11 wrote:
30 May 2022, 11:32
that penalty for Ocon seems odd, it makes about as much sense as the pit exit thing, it is quite obvious they ignored the pit exit line thing so it wouldn't change the end result, not with the benefit of RB in mind, but changing podiums after the race when the offense happened long before end of the race is never a good thing, it's the damn if you do and damn if you don't sort of situation, RB would appeal that had they known about the penalty right then, they might change the race strategy accordingly, and we also don't know if or how many other drivers did the same thing, since they were not involved in the fight for win/podium places, so had they decided to penalize RB drivers, the others would then have to be as well (other teams would file protests), and it turns from track racing to court room racing - which is very bad

Ocon incident and penalty is basically meaningless on the other hand, but it serves another purpose - it sets a precedent (not that they care much about them), I don't know why would they say Ocon initiated the contact - which served as basis for penalty, since there is absolutely no way for him to judge if Lewis is side by side or not, bad decision to give out penalty for such a thing, especially considering the track
Not sure the wording of his penalty or warnings he received, but the corner opens up to the right for turn 1, the gap to the barrier on the left should remain fairly consistent given a normal line down the straight. What you see is that gap to the left gets much bigger and the one to the right smaller, all done while downshifting (check audio). OCO therefore moved under braking slamming HAM square into the barrier. With the contact/damage - easy penalty unfortunately.

EDIT: The yellow pit exit line is another reference to help you visualise OCO steering.
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F1NAC
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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Abysmal race direction...

Freaking Albon holding Leclerc for whole lap and not getting punished... absolute joke... give them the championship already


Watto
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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morefirejules08 wrote:
30 May 2022, 11:24
Watto wrote:
30 May 2022, 07:51
turbof1 wrote:
30 May 2022, 07:37


That comment is out of line. The stewards did take a good look at the regulations and gave the drivers within the scope of said regulations the benefit of the doubt. This has nothing to do with bias towards one or other team.

Also, the video mentioned above does not show where the tyre makes contact with the ground. The camera does a bit of perspective distortion. The commentators themselves said "we need a different angle". Try to look for yourself: the footage from Leclerc shows clearly where the tyre makes contact with the stripe.

To be frank, insinuations of bias are nowadays being thrown around like if it was candy. It is not helpful in the least.
Agreed.

From Max's onboard it looked like he was well over,

From LeClerc's it looked on the line but not sure it was over, without perhaps an overhead or another angle to show more clearly, wasn't the best quality footage with the wet.

I don't think its bias, as you said, rather just inconsistent, if they make the same calls all through the season its a non issue. From race to race track limits varying, depending on the stewards on hand I think you could look at any team an accuse of bias (the FIA changing the pit protocols from memory from pushing from Merc aimed to curbing RB) the accusations against Ferrari in the tyre test a few weeks ago with the floor change. The latter the FIA gave heir judgement so be it we move on, seen some drivers pinged for not slowing under doubled waved yellows others in almost identical situation not (I recall one last year Max got a reprimand for not slowing under yellow that was their for the briefest of moments but it was there, Lewis a few races similar, was from memory no penalized as the stewards said their yellow was a mistake only there for a few seconds though LH onboard show he clearled went through it, just week to week inconsistency some like to draw rather big conclusions into
Sorry but that is not what happened at all.
Max drove through double waved yellows and at least one light board with a car clearly stopped on the side of the track. Those yellows were legitimately thrown by a Marshall as they have a degree of autonomy over race control.
On the other hand Hamilton drove past a yellow light board which was illuminated for such a brief amount of time it was inhumanly possible to react too.
Overall I am just trying say when people call for stewards decisions bias they are often being selective themselves.

I think the stewards can be very inconsistent from race to race witch becomes frustrating. People white about Max or Lewis complaining 'he crossed the line' 'thats dangerous driving' read way too much into some of incidents and so on. When perhaps in the end there is very very little difference to who really get the advantage.Just often the rules are applied differently at time. The rules though are prbably pretty intentional written the way they are so the stewards are never really wrong with a certain level of vagueness. Last year there were Lewis fans accusing Max s thinf and Maxs fans of Lewis

ema00
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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F1NAC wrote:
30 May 2022, 12:22
Abysmal race direction...

Freaking Albon holding Leclerc for whole lap and not getting punished... absolute joke... give them the championship already

https://mobile.twitter.com/bozkayaenver ... Rm5SkwQ2uQ
does the engineer tell the gap between leclerc and verstappen?
Last edited by ema00 on 30 May 2022, 13:26, edited 1 time in total.

lh13
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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Sainz incident is arguable, but Lerclerc being blocked for the whole lap should have been penalised, harshly.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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Surprised Ferrari didn’t protest that given they have over a full lap of evidence. Probably would have got somewhere, but still wouldn’t change the result.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

jz11
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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what I'm wondering about is if mods are very good at deleting "Albon is ex RB, he did it on purpose" messages or the forum has actually grown up slightly :D

dialtone
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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lh13 wrote:
30 May 2022, 12:34
Sainz incident is arguable, but Lerclerc being blocked for the whole lap should have been penalised, harshly.
it isn't arguable at all. Latifi never fricking goes full throttle on the ramp to massenet...

SAI with Latifi v SAI next lap:
Image

VER outlap v VER next lap
Image

Latifi made SAI lose 2 seconds, enough to be behind Checo.

morefirejules08
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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Watto wrote:
30 May 2022, 12:24
morefirejules08 wrote:
30 May 2022, 11:24
Watto wrote:
30 May 2022, 07:51

Agreed.

From Max's onboard it looked like he was well over,

From LeClerc's it looked on the line but not sure it was over, without perhaps an overhead or another angle to show more clearly, wasn't the best quality footage with the wet.

I don't think its bias, as you said, rather just inconsistent, if they make the same calls all through the season its a non issue. From race to race track limits varying, depending on the stewards on hand I think you could look at any team an accuse of bias (the FIA changing the pit protocols from memory from pushing from Merc aimed to curbing RB) the accusations against Ferrari in the tyre test a few weeks ago with the floor change. The latter the FIA gave heir judgement so be it we move on, seen some drivers pinged for not slowing under doubled waved yellows others in almost identical situation not (I recall one last year Max got a reprimand for not slowing under yellow that was their for the briefest of moments but it was there, Lewis a few races similar, was from memory no penalized as the stewards said their yellow was a mistake only there for a few seconds though LH onboard show he clearled went through it, just week to week inconsistency some like to draw rather big conclusions into
Sorry but that is not what happened at all.
Max drove through double waved yellows and at least one light board with a car clearly stopped on the side of the track. Those yellows were legitimately thrown by a Marshall as they have a degree of autonomy over race control.
On the other hand Hamilton drove past a yellow light board which was illuminated for such a brief amount of time it was inhumanly possible to react too.
Overall I am just trying say when people call for stewards decisions bias they are often being selective themselves.

I think the stewards can be very inconsistent from race to race witch becomes frustrating. People white about Max or Lewis complaining 'he crossed the line' 'thats dangerous driving' read way too much into some of incidents and so on. When perhaps in the end there is very very little difference to who really get the advantage.Just often the rules are applied differently at time. The rules though are prbably pretty intentional written the way they are so the stewards are never really wrong with a certain level of vagueness. Last year there were Lewis fans accusing Max s thinf and Maxs fans of Lewis
I agree there is inconsistency in stewards decisions, but at the same time many fans don’t look at the nuances between incidents. Like the one I highlighted in your reply, if you remove all context and nuance, then both MV and LH both “ignored” yellow flags yet it wasn’t as black and white as that.

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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I had a look at Appendix L Chapter IV 4 c) International Sporting Code for this and last year, it used to be:
Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards), any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car leaving the pits.
This changed to:
Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards), any tyre of a car exiting the pit lane must not cross any line painted on the track at the pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pit lane from those on the track.
The sentence order was changed but the key difference is the change from 'any part of the car' to 'any tyre of the car' - IMHO this was done because the only car part that was actually looked at to enforce this was the tyres.

Hypothetically this would have been 'any part of the car' crossing the line but it would have been fine as they only ever looked at the tyres.
Image

The change of the wording was probably supposed to reflect that - i personally do not believe it was ever meant to change the meaning or intention of the rule.

AFAIK this used to be fine:
Image

This was a breach of the rule:
Image

(correct me if i'm wrong on that)

From LEC's onboard and the wording in the decision document ("All parties agreed that Car 1 did have part of its front left and rear left tyre on the left side of the yellow line.") it looked like this was roughly what Max did:
Image

But since yesterday the rule essentially says that this is perfectly fine:
Image

As the decision document made it precedent:
In this case, the car did not “cross” the line – to do so it would have needed to have a full wheel to the left of the yellow line.
I find it very hard to believe this is consistent with the intent of the rule which has "the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from those on the track" and to me it seems that it's another case of the stewards (mis)interpreting the rules post race to not have to interfere with the result.

With the complete lack of penalizing drivers who ignored blue flags, ignoring the pre race times for having wheels on the car, delaying the race and thus screwing over those who actually had a look at the rain radar (M, AM, McL), alleged disagreements about those delays and the pit exit line saga race direction really didn't look all too great, one could argue that there really isn't any improvement from last year - but hey, at least the drivers wear the proper underwear.
Last edited by RZS10 on 30 May 2022, 13:15, edited 1 time in total.

Watto
Watto
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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morefirejules08 wrote:
30 May 2022, 12:51
Watto wrote:
30 May 2022, 12:24
morefirejules08 wrote:
30 May 2022, 11:24


Sorry but that is not what happened at all.
Max drove through double waved yellows and at least one light board with a car clearly stopped on the side of the track. Those yellows were legitimately thrown by a Marshall as they have a degree of autonomy over race control.
On the other hand Hamilton drove past a yellow light board which was illuminated for such a brief amount of time it was inhumanly possible to react too.
Overall I am just trying say when people call for stewards decisions bias they are often being selective themselves.

I think the stewards can be very inconsistent from race to race witch becomes frustrating. People white about Max or Lewis complaining 'he crossed the line' 'thats dangerous driving' read way too much into some of incidents and so on. When perhaps in the end there is very very little difference to who really get the advantage.Just often the rules are applied differently at time. The rules though are prbably pretty intentional written the way they are so the stewards are never really wrong with a certain level of vagueness. Last year there were Lewis fans accusing Max s thinf and Maxs fans of Lewis
I agree there is inconsistency in stewards decisions, but at the same time many fans don’t look at the nuances between incidents. Like the one I highlighted in your reply, if you remove all context and nuance, then both MV and LH both “ignored” yellow flags yet it wasn’t as black and white as that.
Yeah and in hindsight that was a poor one on my part. Was just trying to pull a few form the top of my head.

Even not on a rules thing the Russel is making Lewis look bad I think is selective too, this in Monaco probably but when track position is everything, harsh on Lewis, last weekend Russel finished ahead of Lewis but gee I though LH race pace was a lot better overall.

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214270
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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Folks are preoccupied with the stewards decision but the major thing which isn’t being discussed is the FIA taking a sledgehammer to any clarifications/circuit specific inclusions in the RDs notes which might differ from the sporting regs. To conclude that the RDs notes have no weight relative to the sporting regs is dumb. There absolutely needs to be a mechanism for separate instruction which might be in tension with the regs; every circuit is different. Not sure how track limits is to be addressed moving forward for example.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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F1NAC
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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ema00 wrote:
30 May 2022, 12:28
F1NAC wrote:
30 May 2022, 12:22
Abysmal race direction...

Freaking Albon holding Leclerc for whole lap and not getting punished... absolute joke... give them the championship already

https://mobile.twitter.com/bozkayaenver ... Rm5SkwQ2uQ
does the engineer tell the gap between leclerc and verstappen?
Yes. He tells him that verstappen is 6 seconds behind LEC

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

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214270 wrote:
30 May 2022, 13:21
Folks are preoccupied with the stewards decision but the major thing which isn’t being discussed is the FIA taking a sledgehammer to any clarifications/circuit specific inclusions in the RDs notes which might differ from the sporting regs. To conclude that the RDs notes have no weight relative to the sporting regs is dumb. There absolutely needs to be a mechanism for separate instruction which might be in tension with the regs; every circuit is different. Not sure how track limits is to be addressed moving forward for example.
Track limits was always the outside of the white line for this year I believe.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.