2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[holeindalip]

You will have to watch the races. It's not any deep analysis to answer your question how pace doesn't translate into points.

Ain't that the truth. Looking solely at points is a bad way to analyse a driver's race pace. More so after just a few races...

Russell is doing a good job but on average Hamilton has been a bit faster.

You could have the fastest car on the grid, but if you cant convert it to a points haul, then your fastest car is totally meaningless.

Regarding the team mate battle stats.

Bahrain:
Qualifying: Lewis
Race: Lewis

Saudi:
Qualifying: George
Race: George

Australia:
Qualifying: Lewis
Race: George

Imola:
Qualifying: George
Race: George

Miami:
Qualifying: Lewis
Race: George

Spain:
Qualifying: George
Race: George

Monaco:
Qualifying: George
Race: George

So overall its:
4 Quali to George and 3 Quali to Lewis
6 Race to George and 1 Race to Lewis

Thats quite a difference in race results.

George has got lucky with the safety car twice and Hamilton’s race in Spain was compromised from lap one so it’s a lot closer than 6-1 in the races as you point out.

[chrisc90]

That still makes it 3-1 though given the unfortunate events or fortunate ones for George.

On paper, and head to head, George is ahead. This is the exact same way likes of Sky would show it to viewers when they do the head to head standings. They don’t say, oh in this race one driver was an average of 1/10th quicker overall do they.

[Tvetovnato]

That still makes it 3-1 though given the unfortunate events or fortunate ones for George.

On paper, and head to head, George is ahead. This is the exact same way likes of Sky would show it to viewers when they do the head to head standings. They don’t say, oh in this race one driver was an average of 1/10th quicker overall do they.

Is it going well, trying to convince yourself? Amazed at how hard you are trying mate.

If you think you are going to make people here buy into that George is ahead because he is quicker or a better driver, you are in an argument you cannot win. Everyone here knows how to analyse a race to realize why the standings are as they are. You don’t even have to dig deep to see it.

[CMSMJ1]

I think Chris is making a fair point.

If the current points trends are carried on to the end of the season then we'll see George higher in the standings.

History will always show it.

Lewis is an amazing driver but the length of his peak dominance is exceptional and so it happens that he'll have to suffer a bit of midfield driving where he'll surely be driving well but not getting the wins or podiums.
I can see him winning a race this year of course!

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Chris is making a fair point.

If the current points trends are carried on to the end of the season then we'll see George higher in the standings.

History will always show it.

Lewis is an amazing driver but the length of his peak dominance is exceptional and so it happens that he'll have to suffer a bit of midfield driving where he'll surely be driving well but not getting the wins or podiums.
I can see him winning a race this year of course!

Erm.. Aren't driver vs driver comparisons banned many years now? Strange...

I've been watching posters drag on with driver Vs driver, but no Moderator stepped in to curb it. But I am shocked to see a Moderator joining the party!

[Watto]

I thought Hamilton's race pace at Spain was far better than Russel's, Russell finished ahead but Hamilton recovered very well after the opening incident with KMag., though his pace was far better than Rus.

[silver]

I think Chris is making a fair point.

If the current points trends are carried on to the end of the season then we'll see George higher in the standings.

History will always show it.

Lewis is an amazing driver but the length of his peak dominance is exceptional and so it happens that he'll have to suffer a bit of midfield driving where he'll surely be driving well but not getting the wins or podiums.
I can see him winning a race this year of course!

Erm.. Aren't driver vs driver comparisons banned many years now? Strange...

I've been watching posters drag on with driver Vs driver, but no Moderator stepped in to curb it. But I am shocked to see a Moderator joining the party!

Not sure which forum you have been to where driver comparisons have been banned. It's a legitimate, credible and an important discussion topic borne out of individual performances and more so in a team atmosphere where 2 drivers have the same equipment. On F1Technical itself, these debates have raged on attracting many new members since the days of Hamilton/Rosberg rivalry, increasing the engagement of the website. There are pages loaded with such discussions. It was only because Bottas was a paltry, submissive driver that he was never a real subject of such a fight. With Russell doing pretty much what was expected of a worthy Mercedes driver, it is natural that the scope for an inevitable driver comparison debate arises. People who intensely like Hamilton might not like it, but it's a very natural thing and Hamilton himself was a good subject of such a discussion when he arrived in F1 against Alonso. Till date, that comparison discussion between Hamilton and Alonso goes on.

[Silent Storm]

I thought Hamilton's race pace at Spain was far better than Russel's, Russell finished ahead but Hamilton recovered very well after the opening incident with KMag., though his pace was far better than Rus.

I believe that was partly down to Russel having to defend against Perez and Max. They both were on different strategies so difficult to compare laptimes.

[proteus]

I could have sworn you were an ardent supporter of George Russell. Data shows he's not the faster driver by the way. So the fabricated struggle with the car that you keep mentioning is not affecting one driver alone.

Max and Checo for me all the way. In that order.

I like George though, he just needs to be himself more instead of being PR boy for the team. If he took the 'lines' of say Lando, Max who are themselves in interviews and around the track, it would be a lot better for him. I really hope he doesnt fall too foul of the Merc PR ways.

I guess data is irrelevant when one driver is 34 points clear of the other. That's almost double. Where is the race pace going for one driver not to get more points than a slower team mate?

For the last few seasons Hamilton would hardly bother getting in the car for less than a dozen or so points, while Russell would be grinning with a point or two. It would not really be a surprise if Russell was far more motivated then Hamilton. The part of the field they now fall the difference between 5th and 10th is a very small fraction most times.
I would find it hard to motivate myself if I was Lewis. Lets hope it picks up again when there are decent points on offer for a week ends work. (or as you are a BRB fan, maybe not hope )

Well when motivation is no longer there, it is time to retire i guess.

Also i hardly believe Lewis is supposed to be the kind of guy who would lose his interest so quickly when things dont go his way. To get demoralized by only 7 races with an inferior car is very quick. Even 4ever grumpy Alonso lasted longer before he broke in Mclaren Honda fiasco.

[silver]

Max and Checo for me all the way. In that order.

I like George though, he just needs to be himself more instead of being PR boy for the team. If he took the 'lines' of say Lando, Max who are themselves in interviews and around the track, it would be a lot better for him. I really hope he doesnt fall too foul of the Merc PR ways.

I guess data is irrelevant when one driver is 34 points clear of the other. That's almost double. Where is the race pace going for one driver not to get more points than a slower team mate?

For the last few seasons Hamilton would hardly bother getting in the car for less than a dozen or so points, while Russell would be grinning with a point or two. It would not really be a surprise if Russell was far more motivated then Hamilton. The part of the field they now fall the difference between 5th and 10th is a very small fraction most times.
I would find it hard to motivate myself if I was Lewis. Lets hope it picks up again when there are decent points on offer for a week ends work. (or as you are a BRB fan, maybe not hope )

Well when motivation is no longer there, it is time to retire i guess.

Also i hardly believe Lewis is supposed to be the kind of guy who would lose his interest so quickly when things dont go his way. To get demoralized by only 7 races with an inferior car is very quick. Even 4ever grumpy Alonso lasted longer before he broke in Mclaren Honda fiasco.

It definitely doesn't make any sense to continue if there is no motivation. One of the reasons drivers like Lauda and Schumacher stand out is because they took troubled teams to glory like Lauda did with Ferrari/McLaren and Schumacher with Benetton/Ferrari/Mercedes. I was watching the movie Schumacher and there are instances where Corinna narrates Schumacher's commitment, while the footage shows an intensely engaged Schumacher in the garage at Fiorano helping the engineers and testing the car in the late evenings in almost dark conditions. It requires the lead driver to show the way forward and help them get out of the rut. A driver that is not motivated is a liability.

[hollus]

Erm.. Aren't driver vs driver comparisons banned many years now? Strange...

I've been watching posters drag on with driver Vs driver, but no Moderator stepped in to curb it. But I am shocked to see a Moderator joining the party!

Hi PZ. No, they are not banned. Driver threads have an informal de-facto ban.
What we do do, is ask posters to keep the driver discussions to the team threads.
This sentence is in the opening post of over car thread and if reposted there regularly:

General discussion about the team, its drivers and performance can be posted in the team thread.

[SiLo]

Comparing them whilst Mercedes are trying to figure out how to get speed from their car seems a bit pointless. Especially as they have admitted Lewis is testing more extreme setups to find the limits of the setup window.

George is driving well, Lewis is driving well, George has had a bit more luck, but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. What matters is the team finding more pace in the car.

[bluechris]

Guys relax. Get in their heads of both the drivers.
Hamilton is used to drive a No1 car for concecutive years and George was dead last.
If we consider the above, Hamilton enters the car hoping for the problems to be resolved to fight for wins and because this is not working he is unhappy with what he has in his hands no matter what he says. George on the other hand is super happy that he is finishing in the top 10 and this alone makes him motivated.
This is my view of the situation and i hope a fast recovery.

[CMSMJ1]

I think Chris is making a fair point.

If the current points trends are carried on to the end of the season then we'll see George higher in the standings.

History will always show it.

Lewis is an amazing driver but the length of his peak dominance is exceptional and so it happens that he'll have to suffer a bit of midfield driving where he'll surely be driving well but not getting the wins or podiums.
I can see him winning a race this year of course!

Erm.. Aren't driver vs driver comparisons banned many years now? Strange...

I've been watching posters drag on with driver Vs driver, but no Moderator stepped in to curb it. But I am shocked to see a Moderator joining the party!

I'm a forum member and would think I am able to post my opinions too? My view is that Mercedes team have a very well balanced pair of drivers - one of whom is struggling in the new year and that is a shock to many

If I was only allowed to be a moderator and not contribute then I would not be a happy camper.

There are ways and means to make points and if forum members are able to discuss the team's drivers and make valid points without blinkered belligerence - then for what reason would moderation be needed?

[Watto]

I thought Hamilton's race pace at Spain was far better than Russel's, Russell finished ahead but Hamilton recovered very well after the opening incident with KMag., though his pace was far better than Rus.

I believe that was partly down to Russel having to defend against Perez and Max. They both were on different strategies so difficult to compare laptimes.

Fair point but you could probably say that about a few races between the two of them

I think George is ahead atm but I don't think Hamilton has been as far off as some are suggesting.