2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[wogx]

I'm not saying about rules, but sportsmanship. I'm not blaming HAM for OCO's poor result, I want to point out the deliberate spoiling of his race. Alonso was blocking Hamilton, that's true. But Hamilton didn't lost anything. You're saying that he could... The difference is that Ocon lost those places. He could be 9th, but he wasn't, because Lewis made his weird revenge with team's approval.

[RZS10]

Another way to look at this is that he made one of the usually rather worthless 5s penalties an actual penalty for once.

[wogx]

There is something in your words... But on the other hand stewards probably didn't thought that such a situation could happen. Even if Ocon had passed Hamilton, he wouldn't have built up a 5s advantage - he probably would have finished behind Hamilton - that would have been fair IMO.

Hamilton's influence in that situation... Well I'm definitely not a fan of that. I'd say it was unfair and nasty if Verstappen, Leclerc, Sainz, Zhou or anyone else took such a revenge.

[hollus]

There is just no way to know if Hamilton did that on purpose or not. Maybe, maybe not. Simply no way to know. But for sure that is not the only possible scenario.

[RZS10]

Yup.
Once Alonso picked up the pace Lewis did consistent 1:18 dead with one slower lap towards the end but with a better to similar pace to Russell in the same car on the same tyres with the latter having to push to stay ahead of Norris, so it's probably even a fair assessment to say that he couldn't have gone all that much faster ... and who can even tell if those behind wouldn't have closed the gap even with Lewis sticking to Nando?
There would have been 'natural' gaps in the field without Alonso trundling around and Ocon might have had a realistic chance to keep his position despite his well deserved penalty for his desperate defending but exclusively blaming Lewis for potentially costing him those points is a bit cheap.

And just for the record i was just saying that IF he did then he made the penalty a penalty.

[wogx]

Okay, I guess I was holding on too tightly to that one sentence from LH's race engineer, my bad.
Still, there should be something in the rules to prevent such potential behaviour from any driver. We don't need another unclear precedence like AD GP 2021

[Big Tea]

Maybe he regrets being so 'helpful' when Ham was following him. Ham would have been well up the road then.

[z.topoln]

Okay, I guess I was holding on too tightly to that one sentence from LH's race engineer, my bad.
Still, there should be something in the rules to prevent such potential behaviour from any driver. We don't need another unclear precedence like AD GP 2021

Ocon could have raced fairly, it would be no problem then.

Sent from my Mi Note 10 using Tapatalk

[wogx]

Ocon could have raced fairly, it would be no problem then.

Is this an excuse for a potential dishonest revenge? I remind you that Ocon was penalised by the official stewards, we do not need additional ones on track

[RZS10]

The message Lewis received might have just been info as in "Nando is/was going slow whilst his team mate has a 5s penalty and has cars right behind him, lol".

I see you have described the "behaviour" as "dishonest revenge" which really isn't something that needs to be explicitly regulated, especially since it's almost track specific and impossible to prove anyways.
Drivers have driven slowly in general for one reason or another, driven slowly with someone with a penalty behind, driven slowly to help their team mate and driven slowly in hopes of getting their rival overtaken.
Always happened and always will and as long as it doesn't breach App L Ch. IV 2e) "It is not permitted to drive any car unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time." it's fine.

[NL_Fer]

I am not saying Mercedes had a bad suspension in the hybrid era, but from to time to time, we saw weekends where Mercedes just had a difficult time to keep the tyres in the correct temperature window. It looks like they always had to work harder to perfect their suspension, where for Ferrari and Redbull it came more natural.

So the new rules set them back again and now they need allot of work to return to their previous level.

[JordanMugen]

Chris I know you are a new Mercedes fan but we are very used to a winning car. Even the scraps of a lucky podium is not something to trigger jubilance.

No F1 constructor is entitled to a top car after all. If anything, (for example) Williams process' from being champions with the Williams-Honda, to also-rans with the Williams-Judd, then snipping at the heels of the leaders as the emerging Williams-Renault, and then back to champions again just four seasons later is what makes Grand Prix racing exciting.

The Mercedes is still a really strong upper-midfield car, engaged in some really exciting midfield racing! If Mercedes can repeat the transformation they managed from 2010 to 2014, or even get back to the front a little faster than that, that would be most exciting. That would certainly be much quicker than Red Bull managed to get back to winning ways (8 seasons which was certainly a while as a Red Bull fan, but certainly an exciting journey with many highlights), and would be very expedient indeed.

I could have sworn you were an ardent supporter of George Russell.

Red Bull-Honda fans can be big George Russell fans! I sure am. Russell was very impressive hustling the Williams (as is Albon for that matter!).

I found Russell's exceptional defence in the Spanish GP to be most amusing. It was a cracking drive!

Interestingly, as far as being a BAR/Honda/Brawn/Mercedes fan, I was partial the BAR-Honda team and Button & Sato (they provided a lot of excitement in the 2004 season in particular), but I didn't have a car with VTEC until after Honda left the sport and passed the team on. When Honda supplied Jordan as well, I obviously preferred Jordan to BAR, but I followed Sato from Jordan-Honda to BAR-Honda. Regardless it was definitely fun to cheer for Button and Sato's great podiums for the team in 2004, and for Button's striking victory for the team in Hungary in 2006.

Can't beat everybody all the time.

That's true, it's really a huge shame that Russell didn't get the chance to go for the WDC in the past couple of seasons given the other Mercedes driver is certainly very, very good but also beatable, but it is what it is. Mercedes management didn't want to expediate Russell's promotion for whatever reason (even though Ferrari and Red Bull were much more timely in promoting Leclerc or Gasly), despite Russell's obvious skills. It's quite a big shame for Russell IMO, Russell could very possibly have double-digit race wins and at least one WDC by this point, oh well.

[JordanMugen]

Minor correction: Verstappen Fans can be George fans as it will suit their agenda

(Webber, thus Jaguar/Red Bull, &) Ricciardo fan first and foremost, unfortunately Ricciardo left Red Bull just as Honda joined!

I think Russell is on the same level not just as Verstappen and obviously demonstrably his teammate, but also Leclerc by the way. Norris is probably at that top level too, unfortunately it seems Alonso has dropped back a little bit from that top-tier level nowadays but was certainly in that group previously as well. Russell is a very handy Norfolkian driver!

I think it is clear that Russell is a top-shelf signing by Mercedes (the way Russell would hustle the Williams on the limit in qualifying was so impressive), almost certainly an improvement on Bottas, and should have been moved from Williams to Mercedes earlier.

[e30ernest]

I think Leclerc is probably better than Verstappen. Russell is probably very close to Verstappen on raw pace and Norris is perhaps around there too. Lewis on raw pace is probably behind these young drivers now, but his racecraft and car management is still probably better.

I'm not talking large gaps here by the way, they are all remarkably close IMO.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yup, Lewis was driving his car, he coud control that whole situation... It was a wet Monaco race, an Alpine is surely a weaker car than a Merc this season. Nonetheless, at the end of this race we didn't saw Hamilton on Alonso's tail, we saw that Ocon was intentionally blocked to ruin his race.

Why do we need stewards if drivers can dispense their own justice as they see fit?

Quite funny - Ocon lost position to Bottas, who is much closer to Mercedes drivers in standings.

So what about Abu dahbi 2021 with Perez?