2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[AtlasZX]

That still makes it 3-1 though given the unfortunate events or fortunate ones for George.

On paper, and head to head, George is ahead. This is the exact same way likes of Sky would show it to viewers when they do the head to head standings. They don’t say, oh in this race one driver was an average of 1/10th quicker overall do they.

I think the bigger picture is Hamilton is beyong scrapping for lower points. Small points doesnt matter to him if he is not challenging for wins. What use is 5th and 6th to a man with 103 wins? Who is 37 and will not drive for another team?
I dont even think he cares about racing George and being ahead on points. He is just waiting till the car can win a race before he exerts any extra energy.

When you have 7 world titles, what is there to prove coming home 5th?

What use is a driver that doesn't extract all the points from a car, to a team that is the defending WCC?
Both Ferrari and RB are suffering from reliability issues and DNFs almost at every race, Mercedes needs to capitalize now like Ferrari did in 2012.

[e30ernest]

Hamiltonsay front downforce is great, but resr downforce is lacking in Monaco.

Could be that the side pod wing does not work well at low speeds? Or maybe the floor just needs more tweaking?

The team said they needed to compromise the setup due to the ride over bumps. The car wasn't handling over the bumps well so the drivers lacked confidence through the corners. This meant they needed to compromise the aero setup which lead to an overall loss of performance.

So yeah, looks suspension related.

[silver]

That still makes it 3-1 though given the unfortunate events or fortunate ones for George.

On paper, and head to head, George is ahead. This is the exact same way likes of Sky would show it to viewers when they do the head to head standings. They don’t say, oh in this race one driver was an average of 1/10th quicker overall do they.

I think the bigger picture is Hamilton is beyong scrapping for lower points. Small points doesnt matter to him if he is not challenging for wins. What use is 5th and 6th to a man with 103 wins? Who is 37 and will not drive for another team?
I dont even think he cares about racing George and being ahead on points. He is just waiting till the car can win a race before he exerts any extra energy.

When you have 7 world titles, what is there to prove coming home 5th?

What use is a driver that doesn't extract all the points from a car, to a team that is the defending WCC?
Both Ferrari and RB are suffering from reliability issues and DNFs almost at every race, Mercedes needs to capitalize now like Ferrari did in 2012.

+1. It would put the driver also in a regrettable position if the car comes back to life after a few races and worthy of wins.

[McG]

Wasn't Kimi kind of the same sometimes as Hamilton seems now? Seem to remember him getting quite downbeat when he knew he had a car that wasn't going to be championship or race win material.

[PlatinumZealot]

Never got that from Kimi. He did well in 2009. Even playing number 2 to Vettel he was in good spirits. Totally different case.

Lewis is still in good spirits actually. The last time he was upset about his performance was 2016 with the poor starts. Before that it was 2011 against Jenson. Those years there were legitimate performance gaps in certain areas.

This year Lewis is till the faster driver but unfortunately the unlucky one!


It's fine. He's focussed on developing the car like Michael schumacher used to do, into a race winner again.

[bluechris]

It's fine. He's focussed on developing the car like Michael schumacher used to do, into a race winner again.

Sorry but how do you know that? i mean a driver that is developing a car is moaning constantly because the car is bad? I haven't really heard George doing this in this champ, he put his head down and drives like there is no tommorow.

Anyway, for me is really early to say anything for Hamilton if he has lost it or anything. A guy with so many wins and championships doesn't forget how to drive suddenly. I think his psycology is not good atm because he has used the last years to drive a train/rocket so he needs some races to grasp that. In the other hand Russel came from dead last to one of the top 3 teams so even if you put him to compete with a cart and the others with an F1 car he will perform 150%.

[matteosc]

Hamiltonsay front downforce is great, but resr downforce is lacking in Monaco.

Could be that the side pod wing does not work well at low speeds? Or maybe the floor just needs more tweaking?

The team said they needed to compromise the setup due to the ride over bumps. The car wasn't handling over the bumps well so the drivers lacked confidence through the corners. This meant they needed to compromise the aero setup which lead to an overall loss of performance.

So yeah, looks suspension related.

Same kind of issue that they are having all year, which is that they cannot run the car as intended.
That said, they did a big step forward after Miami, I think we will see how closer they are to the top in the next couple of races (Monaco is not that representative...).

[silver]

It's fine. He's focussed on developing the car like Michael schumacher used to do, into a race winner again.

Sorry but how do you know that? i mean a driver that is developing a car is moaning constantly because the car is bad? I haven't really heard George doing this in this champ, he put his head down and drives like there is no tommorow.

Anyway, for me is really early to say anything for Hamilton if he has lost it or anything. A guy with so many wins and championships doesn't forget how to drive suddenly. I think his psycology is not good atm because he has used the last years to drive a train/rocket so he needs some races to grasp that. In the other hand Russel came from dead last to one of the top 3 teams so even if you put him to compete with a cart and the others with an F1 car he will perform 150%.

We never heard anyone from Mercedes engineering team talking about Hamilton helping develop the car in a Schumacheresque manner. He maybe, but never heard of it. When there was a filming day in Paul Ricard, it was Russell who was testing and Hamilton was missing from the scene. Even on race weekends, Russell is trying different things while Hamilton is using conservative setup to avoid physical difficulties of the car. I am not saying it, a few pages back I have posted team personnel's statements. Other than Toto, for obvious reasons, if the likes of Shovlin, Meadows, Vowels or Elliot talks about Hamilton's contributions in developing this difficult car, we can take our hats off to him. Definitely not for fan statements.

Remember, in Schumacher's days when testing was allowed, he used to fly back to Fiorano on race weekends to test the car, working late nights. In 2005 when he had a similarly difficult year, nobody heard him complaining about the car in public or blasting his team on getting strategies wrong, but he kept getting best out of that car and drove with so much purpose. Schumacher comparison is a false equivalence.

[Tvetovnato]

It's fine. He's focussed on developing the car like Michael schumacher used to do, into a race winner again.

Sorry but how do you know that? i mean a driver that is developing a car is moaning constantly because the car is bad? I haven't really heard George doing this in this champ, he put his head down and drives like there is no tommorow.

Anyway, for me is really early to say anything for Hamilton if he has lost it or anything. A guy with so many wins and championships doesn't forget how to drive suddenly. I think his psycology is not good atm because he has used the last years to drive a train/rocket so he needs some races to grasp that. In the other hand Russel came from dead last to one of the top 3 teams so even if you put him to compete with a cart and the others with an F1 car he will perform 150%.

We never heard anyone from Mercedes engineering team talking about Hamilton helping develop the car in a Schumacheresque manner. He maybe, but never heard of it. When there was a filming day in Paul Ricard, it was Russell who was testing and Hamilton was missing from the scene. Even on race weekends, Russell is trying different things while Hamilton is using conservative setup to avoid physical difficulties of the car. I am not saying it, a few pages back I have posted team personnel's statements. Other than Toto, for obvious reasons, if the likes of Shovlin, Meadows, Vowels or Elliot talks about Hamilton's contributions in developing this difficult car, we can take our hats off to him. Definitely not for fan statements.

Remember, in Schumacher's days when testing was allowed, he used to fly back to Fiorano on race weekends to test the car, working late nights. In 2005 when he had a similarly difficult year, nobody heard him complaining about the car in public or blasting his team on getting strategies wrong, but he kept getting best out of that car and drove with so much purpose. Schumacher comparison is a false equivalence.

And yet here is a comment by Shovlin, who has worked with both:

“If you look at how they drive, when Michael arrived at our team, the things that stood out with him were the way he would always go after the marginal. It doesn't matter if it's a hundredth of a second, he'd try and do it. He'd sort of collect those up.

Michael also had an ability to drive whatever balance was quickest, if it was an understeery car that he needed, he'd do it. If he needed to move the work onto the front tyres, he could. So he was very, very adaptable, in his driving style.

And those are certainly two characteristics that Lewis very much has. A lot of the good drivers don't have a particular style, it's just whatever's quick, they'll adapt to do it.”

This is from an article after Hamilton equalled Schumachers win record.

I think sharing those traits makes him quite ”Schumacheresque” and it kind of goes against your constant agenda that Hamilton is ”not putting the work in” and is driving conservative setups because it’s more comfortable.

Full article here, where he continues about how hard Hamilton works:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... n/4891999/

But yeah, missing a filming day really contradicts all of this I guess…

[PlatinumZealot]

It's fine. He's focussed on developing the car like Michael schumacher used to do, into a race winner again.

Sorry but how do you know that? i mean a driver that is developing a car is moaning constantly because the car is bad? I haven't really heard George doing this in this champ, he put his head down and drives like there is no tommorow.

Anyway, for me is really early to say anything for Hamilton if he has lost it or anything. A guy with so many wins and championships doesn't forget how to drive suddenly. I think his psycology is not good atm because he has used the last years to drive a train/rocket so he needs some races to grasp that. In the other hand Russel came from dead last to one of the top 3 teams so even if you put him to compete with a cart and the others with an F1 car he will perform 150%.

You said Hamilton is moaning constantly? And you haven't heard of George complaining ever at all? This is not what I see in the races, Mercedes reports and from reports from person such as Ross Brawn. I would love to see where I find support for your claims.

You say Hamilton with 7XWDC and 103 wins has a bad psychology at the moment because he has not forgotten how to drive, but complains a lot because he is used to the 2021 rocket ship?

I am not allowed to say if your opinion is wrong or right, but it would be nice to hear the foundation for your theories.

[PlatinumZealot]

For me, I have watched the days of Michael Schumacher at Ferrari and I watch what Hamilton has done at Mercedes and it is very similar in my opinion.
We had a thread keeping track of the technical developments that HAM had big input into, and it is quite interesting some of the inventions he contributed to over the years.

Even as recently at Barcelona we see how the driver can run a setup that brings reasonable qualifying pace, and blistering race pace! Lewis as the leader has been carrying additional sensors on his car, and running the wilder setups to find the sweet spot of the car. It does backfire at times, such as in Jeddah, but it's all in the name of development.

Anyway, I rather speak about the team progress than to compare drivers.

[McG]

Sorry but how do you know that? i mean a driver that is developing a car is moaning constantly because the car is bad? I haven't really heard George doing this in this champ, he put his head down and drives like there is no tommorow.

Anyway, for me is really early to say anything for Hamilton if he has lost it or anything. A guy with so many wins and championships doesn't forget how to drive suddenly. I think his psycology is not good atm because he has used the last years to drive a train/rocket so he needs some races to grasp that. In the other hand Russel came from dead last to one of the top 3 teams so even if you put him to compete with a cart and the others with an F1 car he will perform 150%.

We never heard anyone from Mercedes engineering team talking about Hamilton helping develop the car in a Schumacheresque manner. He maybe, but never heard of it. When there was a filming day in Paul Ricard, it was Russell who was testing and Hamilton was missing from the scene. Even on race weekends, Russell is trying different things while Hamilton is using conservative setup to avoid physical difficulties of the car. I am not saying it, a few pages back I have posted team personnel's statements. Other than Toto, for obvious reasons, if the likes of Shovlin, Meadows, Vowels or Elliot talks about Hamilton's contributions in developing this difficult car, we can take our hats off to him. Definitely not for fan statements.

Remember, in Schumacher's days when testing was allowed, he used to fly back to Fiorano on race weekends to test the car, working late nights. In 2005 when he had a similarly difficult year, nobody heard him complaining about the car in public or blasting his team on getting strategies wrong, but he kept getting best out of that car and drove with so much purpose. Schumacher comparison is a false equivalence.

And yet here is a comment by Shovlin, who has worked with both:

“If you look at how they drive, when Michael arrived at our team, the things that stood out with him were the way he would always go after the marginal. It doesn't matter if it's a hundredth of a second, he'd try and do it. He'd sort of collect those up.

Michael also had an ability to drive whatever balance was quickest, if it was an understeery car that he needed, he'd do it. If he needed to move the work onto the front tyres, he could. So he was very, very adaptable, in his driving style.

And those are certainly two characteristics that Lewis very much has. A lot of the good drivers don't have a particular style, it's just whatever's quick, they'll adapt to do it.”

This is from an article after Hamilton equalled Schumachers win record.

I think sharing those traits makes him quite ”Schumacheresque” and it kind of goes against your constant agenda that Hamilton is ”not putting the work in” and is driving conservative setups because it’s more comfortable.

Full article here, where he continues about how hard Hamilton works:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... n/4891999/

But yeah, missing a filming day really contradicts all of this I guess…

Well said. People acting like it was Mercedes who did all the work then provided the car and Hamilton just jumped in and took some easy championships. Drivers always work with the team to develop it, both race drivers and other drivers. Development is a major strength of any top F1 driver, without it they probably wouldn't be a top driver, Hamilton included.

[JPower]

We never heard anyone from Mercedes engineering team talking about Hamilton helping develop the car in a Schumacheresque manner. He maybe, but never heard of it. When there was a filming day in Paul Ricard, it was Russell who was testing and Hamilton was missing from the scene. Even on race weekends, Russell is trying different things while Hamilton is using conservative setup to avoid physical difficulties of the car. I am not saying it, a few pages back I have posted team personnel's statements. Other than Toto, for obvious reasons, if the likes of Shovlin, Meadows, Vowels or Elliot talks about Hamilton's contributions in developing this difficult car, we can take our hats off to him. Definitely not for fan statements.

Remember, in Schumacher's days when testing was allowed, he used to fly back to Fiorano on race weekends to test the car, working late nights. In 2005 when he had a similarly difficult year, nobody heard him complaining about the car in public or blasting his team on getting strategies wrong, but he kept getting best out of that car and drove with so much purpose. Schumacher comparison is a false equivalence.

You really think Lewis won all of those championships without helping tailor the car to his liking by developing setups and evaluating upgrades? Are you mad?

[bluechris]

It's fine. He's focussed on developing the car like Michael schumacher used to do, into a race winner again.

Sorry but how do you know that? i mean a driver that is developing a car is moaning constantly because the car is bad? I haven't really heard George doing this in this champ, he put his head down and drives like there is no tommorow.

Anyway, for me is really early to say anything for Hamilton if he has lost it or anything. A guy with so many wins and championships doesn't forget how to drive suddenly. I think his psycology is not good atm because he has used the last years to drive a train/rocket so he needs some races to grasp that. In the other hand Russel came from dead last to one of the top 3 teams so even if you put him to compete with a cart and the others with an F1 car he will perform 150%.

You said Hamilton is moaning constantly? And you haven't heard of George complaining ever at all? This is not what I see in the races, Mercedes reports and from reports from person such as Ross Brawn. I would love to see where I find support for your claims.

You say Hamilton with 7XWDC and 103 wins has a bad psychology at the moment because he has not forgotten how to drive, but complains a lot because he is used to the 2021 rocket ship?

I am not allowed to say if your opinion is wrong or right, but it would be nice to hear the foundation for your theories.

No maybe i am wrong in this, i said what i said because i haven't heard George doing that but maybe he does the same and i haven't heard it.
I will try to find the transcripts and i will follow George closer since mainly in FPs and races i watch Hamilton onboard.
Either way the psychological part is not Extreme scenario imo even though Hamilton has a great mentality.

[Big Tea]

Now can not really be compared with the days of Schumacher as there is not unlimited testing. Back then it was at worst just a case of a driver going to a track with a handful of options and developing it 'optician style'. Is it better with or with out, how about now?

Schumacher put lots of time in, but there were a group of test drivers also doing the drudgery day in day out.
It was good for moral to see him working hard and it must have produced results, But there was another reason too in that all the corners on an upcoming track were set up 'in cones' and he could try as many lines as he wanted. (which still means putting the hours in so not easy) This is also why Ferrari were always good from early testing.
It needed the effort put in, but is not allowed today so no driver can do it now