2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[De Jokke]

He came from 15 or something to 3/4th that race in a crap car. I rest my case...

No there was no third as I have already pointed out

I just don't see the miracle you claim he performed. That 4th was followed by 7th, 6th, 4th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 18th in a crap car. Then there was the major update and his results were 1st, 2nd, Ret, 12th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd and Ret which included four pole positions. Lewis didn't perform miracles, the car was clearly crap and then became good with a major update.

He clearly outdrove that car that year. So yes he perfomed miracles. The fight with Webber in the wet in Sepang was epic. Not a lot of drivers can do what he did that day. The 24 was a shitty car, even with the update, it did not became a regular winning car. Lewis took it places where it shouldn't have been.

The following years: 25,26 cars weren't spectacular either. Still Lewis managed to pole it and win with it now and then. He even managed to steal a pole from Vettel in Korea in '11 (dominant RBR, remember)...

[astracrazy]

He came from 15 or something to 3/4th that race in a crap car. I rest my case...

No there was no third as I have already pointed out

I just don't see the miracle you claim he performed. That 4th was followed by 7th, 6th, 4th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 18th in a crap car. Then there was the major update and his results were 1st, 2nd, Ret, 12th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd and Ret which included four pole positions. Lewis didn't perform miracles, the car was clearly crap and then became good with a major update.

He clearly outdrove that car that year. So yes he perfomed miracles. The fight with Webber in the wet in Sepang was epic. Not a lot of drivers can do what he did that day. The 24 was a shitty car, even with the update, it did not became a regular winning car. Lewis took it places where it shouldn't have been.

The following years: 25,26 cars weren't spectacular either. Still Lewis managed to pole it and win with it now and then. He even managed to steal a pole from Vettel in Korea in '11 (dominant RBR, remember)...

Lewis scored more points post update than anyone else did and no car was a regular winning car apart from Brawn at the start. The car could not have been crap with the update.




I don't dispute he had good drives, especially in the first few when the Mclaren was a write off. As to what we can compare it too who knows because Heikki had too many retirements.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the season overall. We have different opinions on what 2009 was and we could both put forwards points all day.

~

I'm not going into anything else such as further years as we are just going to take this topic even further off track. I'm not suggesting Lewis is a bad driver so its irrelevant.

[xaero]

No there was no third as I have already pointed out

I just don't see the miracle you claim he performed. That 4th was followed by 7th, 6th, 4th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 18th in a crap car. Then there was the major update and his results were 1st, 2nd, Ret, 12th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd and Ret which included four pole positions. Lewis didn't perform miracles, the car was clearly crap and then became good with a major update.

Do you want to prove that Ham is a s**t driver? He or anyone has noting to provide to anyone especially to a forum user like you or me. Instead of wasting time here in unnecessary banter try to do something productive in life.

Are you ok? You seem upset.

Well ready my post again .. maybe it will help

[PlatinumZealot]

Anyone claiming Lewis needs a fast/perfect car, didn't watch the 2009 season.
Lewis performed miracles that year with a shitty car!

Are you sure about that? If I remember correctly (provide the results and correct me if I am wrong of course) he did just about as good as he is now until they brought a major upgrade half way through the season.

He was on the podium in race 1. The DSQ tells no story.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/static/img ... barric.jpg

No Trulli was.

Lewis finished 4th (which would have been 6th if not for the second to last lap collision between Kubica and Vettel ahead of him). He lied about Trulli which led to Trulli getting a 25 sec penalty giving Lewis 3rd place. This was then cancelled once it became clear Lewis and his team mislead the stewards which led to Lewis getting disqualified.

I remember that race. He was third on the road after Trulli went wide during the saftey car.
Dave Ryan made the mistake of ordering Lewis to give the place back but by the regs Lewis was entitled to keep that third place.

So yeah. It would have been thrid place with the silver donkey.

[silver]

He came from 15 or something to 3/4th that race in a crap car. I rest my case...

No there was no third as I have already pointed out

I just don't see the miracle you claim he performed. That 4th was followed by 7th, 6th, 4th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 18th in a crap car. Then there was the major update and his results were 1st, 2nd, Ret, 12th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd and Ret which included four pole positions. Lewis didn't perform miracles, the car was clearly crap and then became good with a major update.

He clearly outdrove that car that year. So yes he perfomed miracles. The fight with Webber in the wet in Sepang was epic. Not a lot of drivers can do what he did that day. The 24 was a shitty car, even with the update, it did not became a regular winning car. Lewis took it places where it shouldn't have been.

The following years: 25,26 cars weren't spectacular either. Still Lewis managed to pole it and win with it now and then. He even managed to steal a pole from Vettel in Korea in '11 (dominant RBR, remember)...

So performing miracles means fighting with Webber.

In 2010, Hamilton won 3 races and Button 2. Hamilton got a total of 9 podiums and Button got 7 podiums. Hamilton ended with 240 points and Button with 214. How is that a bad car? This was Button's first season at McLaren.

In 2011, Both Hamilton and Button got 3 wins each. Button got 12 podiums and Hamilton got 6. Button ended the season with 270 points and Hamilton with 227. How is that Button managed better results than Hamilton if the car was bad?

[mstar]

No there was no third as I have already pointed out

I just don't see the miracle you claim he performed. That 4th was followed by 7th, 6th, 4th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 18th in a crap car. Then there was the major update and his results were 1st, 2nd, Ret, 12th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd and Ret which included four pole positions. Lewis didn't perform miracles, the car was clearly crap and then became good with a major update.

In 2011, Both Hamilton and Button got 3 wins each. Button got 12 podiums and Hamilton got 6. Button ended the season with 270 points and Hamilton with 227. How is that Button managed better results than Hamilton if the car was bad?

2011, lewis had a lot of bad luck with reliability/mclaren strategy calls etc. On pure driving lewis was much quicker qualy and race. When everything was on par lewis qualified ahead and out raced jenson.

[PlatinumZealot]

The car was not bad in 2011.
But Lewis was expecting to fight Vettel at the start of the season. It was his worse season, but he had some real miracle drives that year!

Actually it is well documented that Martin Whitmarsh wanted to swing team leadership towards Jenson. As they rolled into 2012 the new car was much more difficult to drive even though it was much quicker that plan of whitmarsh back-fired - Jenson was lost with the car half of the time!

[Mchamilton]

He came from 15 or something to 3/4th that race in a crap car. I rest my case...

No there was no third as I have already pointed out

I just don't see the miracle you claim he performed. That 4th was followed by 7th, 6th, 4th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 18th in a crap car. Then there was the major update and his results were 1st, 2nd, Ret, 12th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd and Ret which included four pole positions. Lewis didn't perform miracles, the car was clearly crap and then became good with a major update.

He clearly outdrove that car that year. So yes he perfomed miracles. The fight with Webber in the wet in Sepang was epic. Not a lot of drivers can do what he did that day. The 24 was a shitty car, even with the update, it did not became a regular winning car. Lewis took it places where it shouldn't have been.

The following years: 25,26 cars weren't spectacular either. Still Lewis managed to pole it and win with it now and then. He even managed to steal a pole from Vettel in Korea in '11 (dominant RBR, remember)...

that is just pure conjecture though isnt it really, a driver cant outperform a car can they. you can say he maximised the cars potential for sure, but no more.
yes his battle with webber was classic, but his wet weather ability vs Webbers is not even on the same level and surely everybody can agree on do.

[hollus]

Go, find those 10 year old threads, and continue there?

On with the 2020s, 2022 would be even better, thanks.

[atanatizante]

[chrisc90]

Will certainly be interesting if the track is equally as bumpy as Monaco, and a lot faster.

[atanatizante]

[wogx]

Happy #PrideMonth
We’re proud to be running the Mercedes-Benz Pride Star on our W13s for the next three races, celebrating the LGBTQ+ community and raising awareness for Pride Month

[ringo]

He came from 15 or something to 3/4th that race in a crap car. I rest my case...

No there was no third as I have already pointed out

I just don't see the miracle you claim he performed. That 4th was followed by 7th, 6th, 4th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 18th in a crap car. Then there was the major update and his results were 1st, 2nd, Ret, 12th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd and Ret which included four pole positions. Lewis didn't perform miracles, the car was clearly crap and then became good with a major update.

No, you do not know the history. Hamilton was in 4th, Truli fell off the track by making a mistake behind SC conditions, placing Hamilton in 3rd.
Hamilton naively let Truli back infront under the safety car, which would have been illegal for Truli to do and he should have been DQ.
So Hamilton did race to 3rd place. And he did perform miracles in that car.

[De Jokke]

Anyone claiming Lewis needs a fast/perfect car, didn't watch the 2009 season.
Lewis performed miracles that year with a shitty car!

Are you sure about that? If I remember correctly (provide the results and correct me if I am wrong of course) he did just about as good as he is now until they brought a major upgrade half way through the season.

He was on the podium in race 1. The DSQ tells no story.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/static/img ... barric.jpg

No Trulli was.

Lewis finished 4th (which would have been 6th if not for the second to last lap collision between Kubica and Vettel ahead of him). He lied about Trulli which led to Trulli getting a 25 sec penalty giving Lewis 3rd place. This was then cancelled once it became clear Lewis and his team mislead the stewards which led to Lewis getting disqualified.

I remember that race. He was third on the road after Trulli went wide during the saftey car.
Dave Ryan made the mistake of ordering Lewis to give the place back but by the regs Lewis was entitled to keep that third place.

So yeah. It would have been thrid place with the silver donkey.

https://youtu.be/-dhmCRFSoIk

Thank you PZ! You hit it right on the nail!