2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Spoutnik]

Any indications on the race pace?

[chrisc90]

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

[silver]

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

[organic]

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

Really? the drivers were not happy

[chrisc90]

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

Given the pace they have had up until now - which I think we can all agree has been poor compared to the front runners....(still a strong/top midfield/best of the rest car) P3/P4 area....I cant see any benefit of them sandbagging in the slightest. nothing to try and hide from any other team - There could be those from behind as thats who is challenging them realistically.

[pursue_one's]

Lewis:
" We tried something experimental on my car and it didn’t feel that great to be honest. But at least we tried it and got data on it and now we’ll go through it and hopefully for tomorrow we’ll probably revert back to what we changed. Tyres feel like they are working well. No issue with starting a lap. "

Russell:
" It was a tricky day, we weren’t as competitive as we would have liked. Again, a tricky track to get the tyres in the right window. You see with a number of drivers, their fastest laps were coming right at the end of the run. Whereas Ferrari and Red Bull, they seemed to be able to turn it on. At the moment, they just have an inherently faster car than us and we’ve done everything we can to try and catch up. I think if we’re totally on top of the tyres we’re not going to fully close that gap – or we’re definitely not going to close that gap, they’re just too far ahead. "

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2022/06/ ... s-in-baku/

[cplchanb]

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

Given the pace they have had up until now - which I think we can all agree has been poor compared to the front runners....(still a strong/top midfield/best of the rest car) P3/P4 area....I cant see any benefit of them sandbagging in the slightest. nothing to try and hide from any other team - There could be those from behind as thats who is challenging them realistically.

at most right now is that they were using their old PU.... so for tmrrw id expect them to get maybe 0.5s...

[Swed3120]

The merc PU is becoming a real problem.
The 5 slowest cars in the speedtrap are all Mercedes powered and if you discount Lewis massive tow , they are absolutely no where in terms of top end speed.
They seriously need to get on top of this as it’s not just ruining their chance of fighting forward but also threading McLarens position as head of the midfield.
What a joke, in 2 years Merc HPP have gone from industry leading to stone dead last. That is simply unacceptable to for the amount of money Daimler and co throw at them

[silver]

The merc PU is becoming a real problem.
The 5 slowest cars in the speedtrap are all Mercedes powered and if you discount Lewis massive tow , they are absolutely no where in terms of top end speed.
They seriously need to get on top of this as it’s not just ruining their chance of fighting forward but also threading McLarens position as head of the midfield.
What a joke, in 2 years Merc HPP have gone from industry leading to stone dead last. That is simply unacceptable to for the amount of money Daimler and co throw at them

It's not PU problem, it's "drag". All the Mercedes customer teams and Mercedes themselves have more "drag" than others.

[F1Krof]

They are toast this year. Can't do anything.

[Andi76]

Lets revisit this statement on Monday. AM is doing the exact thing you stated above. They have the merc airbox with RB sidepods. We'll see whos right after this race.

Revisit it now, a few races later? Unfortunately i was obviously right by saying Barcelona sucess was track dependant etc. And as Aston Martin seems to improve, while Mercedes still is in a lot of trouble and the gap seems to get even bigger instead of smaller, with porpoising solved - it seems to prove what i said since the very beginning of the season - that the Zero-Pod concept is just wrong, for reasons already explained.

baku is a street circuit as well you know... so the characteristics of monaco would probably be similar. they were struggling last year as well in baku so its not surprising that this time its the same. merc has historically focused on the grand picture in terms of track suitability which are purpose built ones. so far its just been temp street circuits. if merc gets demoed in silverstone then we'll know.

You really think there is the possibility that this will change on a "non-street"-circuit? I do not think so. Ok Mercedes never was phenomenal on street-circuits, but they were ok. In Baku 2021 Hamilton started from P2, would have won the race under normal circumstances. 2018 and 2019 they have won in Baku.. So in Baku they have been the best team recently. But anyway - its race Nr. 8 now. They brought a big upgrade that was intended to improve their car massively. But the gap even seems to get bigger. And a good car and a good concept always works well on every kind of circuit. History proves that without any doubt. So sorry if i do not agree at all with your arguement that we have to wait for Silverstone to be sure. Like i already said - with ground effect cars, its just wrong to drive your floor with getting more air over the diffusor. With missing barge-boards, micropods or even zero-pods are just wrong as you cannot control the front wheel wake as needed, causing drag. Thats the reason why McLaren went away from micropods recently, and seem to improve. Just take a look at the grid- all teams with Micro/Zero-sidepods got worse, while all teams with other concepts improved...there are just too many indicators and results supporting all this massively, i think. But lets wait for Silverstone. My prediction is it will not change and they will still be 0,8-1,2 sec. slower than Ferrari and Red Bull.

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

I do not share your optimism. They are lost. The gap to Ferrari and RBR is bigger than ever. Its race nr. 8 now. 1/3 of the season and the car is horrible compared to Red Bull or Ferrari, and even cars like Alfa or Renault are better than the Mercedes(Mercedes is only in front of them as they have better drivers and a better race-team). The car is completely wrong in terms of concept and there is no way to correct this.

[214270]

If the track isn’t billiard smooth, they’re fu**ed it seems, no margin whatsoever.

[Big Tea]

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

For them to be sandbagging they would have to be confident not only that the car would work as it is now, but as it would have to run in the race. The only way they can find out if it would run happily at that pace would be to have tried it. I had hoped they were getting the ducks in a row but sadly it looks like a false dawn and they have not cured the problem, but in fact found another one.

[dialtone]

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

For them to be sandbagging they would have to be confident not only that the car would work as it is now, but as it would have to run in the race. The only way they can find out if it would run happily at that pace would be to have tried it. I had hoped they were getting the ducks in a row but sadly it looks like a false dawn and they have not cured the problem, but in fact found another one.

No one sandbags race sims to that extent, you need real data on tire deg and if you go too slow you don't get it.

[cplchanb]

Revisit it now, a few races later? Unfortunately i was obviously right by saying Barcelona sucess was track dependant etc. And as Aston Martin seems to improve, while Mercedes still is in a lot of trouble and the gap seems to get even bigger instead of smaller, with porpoising solved - it seems to prove what i said since the very beginning of the season - that the Zero-Pod concept is just wrong, for reasons already explained.

baku is a street circuit as well you know... so the characteristics of monaco would probably be similar. they were struggling last year as well in baku so its not surprising that this time its the same. merc has historically focused on the grand picture in terms of track suitability which are purpose built ones. so far its just been temp street circuits. if merc gets demoed in silverstone then we'll know.

You really think there is the possibility that this will change on a "non-street"-circuit? I do not think so. Ok Mercedes never was phenomenal on street-circuits, but they were ok. In Baku 2021 Hamilton started from P2, would have won the race under normal circumstances. 2018 and 2019 they have won in Baku.. So in Baku they have been the best team recently. But anyway - its race Nr. 8 now. They brought a big upgrade that was intended to improve their car massively. But the gap even seems to get bigger. And a good car and a good concept always works well on every kind of circuit. History proves that without any doubt. So sorry if i do not agree at all with your arguement that we have to wait for Silverstone to be sure. Like i already said - with ground effect cars, its just wrong to drive your floor with getting more air over the diffusor. With missing barge-boards, micropods or even zero-pods are just wrong as you cannot control the front wheel wake as needed, causing drag. Thats the reason why McLaren went away from micropods recently. Just take a look at the grid- all teams with Micro/Zero-sidepods got worse, while all teams with other concepts improved...there are just too many indicators and results supporting all this massively, i think. But lets wait for Silverstone. My prediction is it will not change and they will still be 0,8-1,2 sec. slower than Ferrari and Red Bull.

Thanks.

That’s quite a way off! Cars behind could be a big threat here for Merc

I am confident it's only 2 tenths like we saw in Spain. They are sandbagging.

I do not share your optimism. They are lost. The gap to Ferrari and RBR is bigger than ever. Its race nr. 8 now. 1/3 of the season and the car is horrible compared to Red Bull or Ferrari, and even cars like Alfa or Renault are better than the Mercedes(Mercedes is only in front of them as they have better drivers and a better race-team). The car is completely wrong in terms of concept and there is no way to correct this.

Ham was only in position to win last year because max blew his tyre and perezs engine was failing. Mid race he was in no man's land. In 18 and 19, their pu Masked their weaknesses. Baku is just like Singapore, their Trojan horse. Merc historically has more often than not struggled mechanically in the tight street circuits. That's why I argue that the real litmus test of their Barcelona fixes is on purpose built tracks, hence Silverstone and maybe Canada.