Opinion on 2022 regulations

[johnny comelately]

I may have posted in the wrong thread, but anyway
I based my thoughts on the atrocious conditions for the drivers , to see them bouncing up and down so harshly is avoidable and is a consequence of the new formula.
To me it is clear Brawn and et als failed to envision this.
Of course the Red Bull/ Adrian solving the huge problem is the best argument against my point and the only retort I have there is that do the others have to endure ?
The conclusion is it is a very hard problem to solve, the questions are: is it too hard? Is it needed?
Considering the drivers is most important.
I have been influenced by the comments of Sainz, Hamilton, Russell, ex drivers and others.
I know this has all been rehashed and flogged to death (hope that doesnt get lost in translation), but if I may:
At the beginning of the season when porpoising became apparent my thoughts were that to depend on vacuum for the majority of your traction is going to be very hard because if you take a vacuum cleaner end and hold it very close to a surface but not touching and move along it is almost impossible to be consistent and generally it will stick, let go, stick etc.
Apart from the geometric design the need to have an effective bleed system is paramount.

[senja]

Actually, it's easy to solve. You just need to lose some of performance... If they don't know for better solutions. It's up to teams to protect their drivers.

[chrisc90]

Why is there like a whole page of hidden/missing posts on the previous page? Got post from the 5th June, then jumps to the 11th June with a post from 03.26AM with a whole load of quoted posts from the 10th June.

Whats going on?

[Ryar]

Actually, it's easy to solve. You just need to lose some of performance... If they don't know for better solutions. It's up to teams to protect their drivers.

It indeed is the right option. The teams that are struggling with porpoising are greedy and sacrificing driver wellness for car performance. They can increase the ride height or put stakes under floor to avoid bottoming like Red Bull has and let the drivers drive in safe manner. Without solving the problem with simple solutions, they are making a mountain of a molehill.

[adrianjordan]

I know this may sound overly simple, but is there anything in the regulations that would prevent them using some sort of padding in the seat to try and mitigate some of the bumping for the driver? I know it won't get rid of it completely, but I'm thinking some sort of memory foam type material that would soften the impact when the car hits the ground.

On the other hand, I am fairly certain that Adrian Newey would love for Active Suspension to return - just look at what he was able to do in 1992 and 1993 with an active system!! The most advanced sportscars on the planet, with basic suspension. I am becoming more and more convinced that they should allow more complex suspension systems, whether active or not. Yes there is an argument that this is giving the teams suffering with porpoising a helping hand, but it also allows the teams like Red Bull the chance to stretch their aero advantage even more.

[Dr. Acula]

I know this may sound overly simple, but is there anything in the regulations that would prevent them using some sort of padding in the seat to try and mitigate some of the bumping for the driver? I know it won't get rid of it completely, but I'm thinking some sort of memory foam type material that would soften the impact when the car hits the ground.

On the other hand, I am fairly certain that Adrian Newey would love for Active Suspension to return - just look at what he was able to do in 1992 and 1993 with an active system!! The most advanced sportscars on the planet, with basic suspension. I am becoming more and more convinced that they should allow more complex suspension systems, whether active or not. Yes there is an argument that this is giving the teams suffering with porpoising a helping hand, but it also allows the teams like Red Bull the chance to stretch their aero advantage even more.

Nope, they can use as much padding as they want. Of course this would add weight.
If you already have a well working suspension, you don't gain as much from an active system as if you have a suspension that doesn't work very well. Also passive suspension systems have come a long way. The difference for teams like RBR probably won't be as massive anymore as it was 30 years ago.
IMHO the only teams that call for active suspension are the once with massive porpoising problems. But there's a very simple solution for that. Increase the ride hight. Oh, you lose performance if you do that? Well, to bad, better luck next season.

[adrianjordan]

I know this may sound overly simple, but is there anything in the regulations that would prevent them using some sort of padding in the seat to try and mitigate some of the bumping for the driver? I know it won't get rid of it completely, but I'm thinking some sort of memory foam type material that would soften the impact when the car hits the ground.

On the other hand, I am fairly certain that Adrian Newey would love for Active Suspension to return - just look at what he was able to do in 1992 and 1993 with an active system!! The most advanced sportscars on the planet, with basic suspension. I am becoming more and more convinced that they should allow more complex suspension systems, whether active or not. Yes there is an argument that this is giving the teams suffering with porpoising a helping hand, but it also allows the teams like Red Bull the chance to stretch their aero advantage even more.

Nope, they can use as much padding as they want. Of course this would add weight.
If you already have a well working suspension, you don't gain as much from an active system as if you have a suspension that doesn't work very well. Also passive suspension systems have come a long way. The difference for teams like RBR probably won't be as massive anymore as it was 30 years ago.
IMHO the only teams that call for active suspension are the once with massive porpoising problems. But there's a very simple solution for that. Increase the ride hight. Oh, you lose performance if you do that? Well, to bad, better luck next season.

Except the, sometimes allegedly Red Bull biased, Sky F1 team claim that most of the paddock is complaining about the bumps, not just porpoising. Let's be fair, Ferrari is just as bad as Mercedes. Even if not, it wouldn't be the first time regs have been changed to try and avoid one team running away without opposition!!

[chrisc90]

avoid one team running away without opposition!!

I dont think its just 1 team though? Ferrari are giving a strong fight so far. Just been a bit unlucky with a couple reliability issues. Which is a separate issue to the porpoising.

[JordanMugen]

Lando Norris on porpoising after the Azerbaijan Grand Prix:

I can't complain. It's not too bad, we have some porpoising but it's what you have to deal with. It's the tradeoff with trying to gain performance. We could quite easily go lower and gain performance with more porpoising, but we think where we are at is the correct amount. I'm sure Mercedes could build a stiffer floor and raise the ride height and it would be much nicer for them, but they obviously just don't want to lose performance.

So the McLaren driver doesn't think there is any issue there with the regulations, or need for, for example, maximum vertical acceleration & vertical jerk rules. It's for the teams to manage by raising their car, like McLaren have done, in his view.

[Spoutnik]

Lando Norris on porpoising after the Azerbaijan Grand Prix:

I can't complain. It's not too bad, we have some porpoising but it's what you have to deal with. It's the tradeoff with trying to gain performance. We could quite easily go lower and gain performance with more porpoising, but we think where we are at is the correct amount. I'm sure Mercedes could build a stiffer floor and raise the ride height and it would be much nicer for them, but they obviously just don't want to lose performance.

So the McLaren driver doesn't think there is any issue there with the regulations, or need for, for example, maximum vertical acceleration & vertical jerk rules. It's for the teams to manage by raising their car, like McLaren have done, in his view.

Ricciardo complained tho

[chrisc90]

Lando sums it up. As said before....Merc just need to raise the ride height to stop the bouncing. Simple really. There is nothing to blame but the team for Lewis having a 'bad back'

[PlatinumZealot]

The need to allow advanced suspensions again.

Raising the ride height is not acceptable.

[chrisc90]

The need to allow advanced suspensions again.

Raising the ride height is not acceptable.

Nah, I disagree with that. At least for this season or next. If some teams are capable of coming up with a solution then it is wrong to punish those teams who have done so.

[Edax]

Lando sums it up. As said before....Merc just need to raise the ride height to stop the bouncing. Simple really. There is nothing to blame but the team for Lewis having a 'bad back'

That is also the feeling I have. Teams are pushing the setup into a direction that it is starting to hurt their drivers just because it is faster. You can’t ask from the drivers to push back.

Think the easiest way to solve this is to impose a max vibration limit, based on health considerations. The teams can then optimize their setup around that.

[JordanMugen]

Raising the ride height is not acceptable.

Why not? It would avoid the problem of the car bottoming out, no?

Why cant they just raise the car to give it a bit of rake so the rear is higher than the front? That way there is more travel for the rear to be pulled down under the higher speed running, meaning the floor is less closer to the floor and reduces the chance of porpoising

Spot on!