2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Silent Storm wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 16:43

Interview with Pierre Waché, technical director of Red Bull Racing and man with a PhD in fluid mechanics.

He is surprised that Red Bull was immediately so competitive and explains why the RB18 is not yet doing exactly what Max Verstappen wants.

It seems that the Silverstone update will fix or help give max the front end he wants.
What does he say/imply about the Silverstone update? Article is paywalled unfortunately.

Gillian
Gillian
0
Joined: 27 May 2021, 21:46

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Big Tea wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 17:44
Gillian wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 16:58
Big Tea wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 16:45


Max has not really had a good measure until now. Not saying the other driver has been inferior, but they have not been happy with the car and Max has. Now both are happy with the car it is easier to make a comparison.
I think most weeks Quali could go either way, but it would have to be 70/30 to Max on Sunday.
That's unfair isn't it? Verstappen is not happy with the car at this moment, but he still beats his teammate. So if you're going to disregard former results because the other drivers where unhappy (ofcourse they where, they where loosing big time), then why is a comparison right now fair? You either look at all the data or not.

We'll see what happens when the front is responsive again.
When I say Max is not unhappy with the car I have no doubt he would like it more to his liking, but I am comparing to the previous car where both Albon and Gasly found it almost undrivable. No doubt Max was not 100% happy with it himself, but one of his skills seems to be that he is able to drive anything and get a decent drive out of it.

It is comparative, but to match him V the two above, even though they seem good drivers is still not a fair comparison, not due to Max failings, but to his ability to get around it.
I understand what you mean and I think it's not a fair comparison. For all we know the car right now is perfect for Perez and absolutely terrible for Verstappen. Sure it's not that dramatic but maybe it wasn't either when he was driving against Albon and Gasly. I don't like 'cherrypicked' comparisons, it's always unfair imo.

If you look at the qualifying stats between this year and last year:

2021
Verstappen beat Perez 20 out of 21 with average of 0.525 gap.

2022
Verstappen beat Perez 5 out of 8 with average of 0.145ms gap.

There's 2 ways to look at that:
- Perez has improved and now is close to Verstappen.
- Verstappen is qualifying worse than in 2021.

The media has chosen option A and is hyping up Perez (Perez 2.0!?).

Looking at the actual qualifying footage, Verstappen's comments and how the races unfold I'd say the latter.

Seems to me Perez is taking a lot of risk during qualifying to get in front of Verstappen and Verstappen is taking it a little easier because the car is just not there yet for him.

Hence my comments that it's unfair to disregard all the years of team mate domination and to focus on these 8 races so far, as if only those races are a good measure of driver performance.

If anything I'd say the opposite: Perez having a car to his liking driving balls to the wall still gets out-qualified by 0.145 on average and is literally no match over a race distance.

Silent Storm
Silent Storm
111
Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

organic wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 18:25
Silent Storm wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 16:43

Interview with Pierre Waché, technical director of Red Bull Racing and man with a PhD in fluid mechanics.

He is surprised that Red Bull was immediately so competitive and explains why the RB18 is not yet doing exactly what Max Verstappen wants.

It seems that the Silverstone update will fix or help give max the front end he wants.
What does he say/imply about the Silverstone update? Article is paywalled unfortunately.
He didn’t spill any specific details about the silverstone update unfortunately, but it is safe to assume that the update will make the car more refined/polished overall. In general he thinks the car is sort of unfinished in its current state.
The cheapest sort of pride is national pride, every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wazari wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 03:11
ispano6 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 18:14
Remember the musings of Honda struggling to regain back the horsepower due to E10 fuel? Sure they had early gremlins this year but made a good recovery understanding the issues.

It would be nice to see improvements and upgrades for the ERS and battery too.

I hope they have success at Suzuka this year and maybe even have a chance to witness a win there. Singapore too, it's been a while since Asia has had a F1 race for the Honda fans.
There will be a significant upgrade to the ERS system after summer break and that along with a major chassis upgrade about the same time should bode well for RBR in the second half of the season.
From the Honda thread. Seems relevant. Thank you for the info

Hoping the chassis upgrade arrives for Silverstone

napoleon1981
napoleon1981
3
Joined: 12 Sep 2021, 17:19

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Gillian wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 16:30
chrisc90 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 16:00
I think Perez took a bit more out of them on the initial laps to get Charles out of the DRS and the larger tow area. Good call really.

Looking at what could have happened if Lec didnt retire, and given the VSC caused by Magnusson, then it would have been interesting to see Fresh Meds on the Ferrari and Fresh hard on the Bulls. Ric showed the Medium didnt really have the pace to fully close in. Although given the Alpine was lightening quick on the straight.

Pleased with the points haul this weekend. Put good gap between RB and Fer in the WCC (80points) and Checo moves up to second with a little gap to charles.
Verstappen has better tire management than Perez. Over a single lap there's not a lot between them, though I suspect the gap to be a little bigger once the car has a bit sharper frontend.
You can see it clearly really, Verstappen's lap times are really consistent and have a pretty flat dropoff. Perez looses more time over a stint. I think that's why they told him not to fight at that point in the race.

Perez "the tire whisperer" is one of the biggest myths I've seen in all the years I've watched F1. :wtf:
This is so true. Perez is way worse on tires then verstappen. We have seen it time and time again. The other big myth was Ricciardo being the last of the late brakers.... getting a fresh set of tires at the end of the race and make some overtakes in a RB that was superiour on the brakes.

hasika
hasika
18
Joined: 30 Nov 2017, 04:12

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Max was still not fully comfortable with RB18,he just didnt like the understeered car.He still need some time to get one lap pace with RB18.
But in race condition when he didnt need push to the limit,we all can see how good he is.His long race pace was alaways better than Perze.

User avatar
Jambier
5
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 11:02
Location: France

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Having Perez fast is good also to have a bit of suspens for the title. Otherwise we all know that RB / VES will win again

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Max might even let checo have a title if they are close. Max’s ambition was to always win one title, so he’s achieved that.

Whether he wants to go on and chase records is another topic. Given his wins this season and last, average would say he’s doing very well

Think question would be whether max is really bothered about getting more
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

User avatar
F1NAC
170
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Jambier wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 13:28
Having Perez fast is good also to have a bit of suspens for the title. Otherwise we all know that RB / VES will win again
Perez is nowhere near Verstappen in race. When he is fast he usually is in Q, but VER is much better in tyre management. (See Monaco, now Baku, Jeddah maybe also)

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

F1NAC wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 13:41
Jambier wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 13:28
Having Perez fast is good also to have a bit of suspens for the title. Otherwise we all know that RB / VES will win again
Perez is nowhere near Verstappen in race. When he is fast he usually is in Q, but VER is much better in tyre management. (See Monaco, now Baku, Jeddah maybe also)
Maybe it is because of that max is easily quick with the car which needs less tyre usage while perez force himself to be that fast which cause more tyre usage ( just an opinion )

User avatar
Sieper
73
Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

It is so hard to understand the nuances of going fast, and doing it consistently. We can only look at the numbers. f.e. www.f1bythenumbers.com

We usually call some very broad strokes/terms and then think that explains things. But we have no idea what goes in to modern day F1 driving. I just know I can't even park my car consistently inside the lines (an exact fit, no cm to spare) and placing your car into corners at super high speeds, lap after lap, right speed, right brake power, right moment of throttle apply.

We all know the feeling of nailing a corner on an offramp, but these guys are having to nail it on much more precise levels corner after corner, lap after lap.

It is just a question of feel and consistence. See broad terms.

User avatar
TNTHead
9
Joined: 01 May 2017, 21:41
Location: The Netherlands

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Sieper wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 15:52
It is so hard to understand the nuances of going fast, and doing it consistently. We can only look at the numbers. f.e. www.f1bythenumbers.com

We usually call some very broad strokes/terms and then think that explains things. But we have no idea what goes in to modern day F1 driving. I just know I can't even park my car consistently inside the lines (an exact fit, no cm to spare) and placing your car into corners at super high speeds, lap after lap, right speed, right brake power, right moment of throttle apply.

We all know the feeling of nailing a corner on an offramp, but these guys are having to nail it on much more precise levels corner after corner, lap after lap.

It is just a question of feel and consistence. See broad terms.
Well said, by the looks of it I think where VER really stands out is consistency. You can see it in a race where he is in clean air, then his timings are very similar, lap after lap. That presumes the accuracy you speak of.

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

This not for insisting purpose but just adding my point to ... for example when I am braking with motorcycle or cornering I just concentrate what I am doing and I am doing only one thing "cornering" despite I am too way slow compared to rossi. Rossi generally was choosing removing his dirty tear off right in the mid of cornering. He just says by doint that in the middle of corner "what I am doing right now is so easy for me that I can do another thing along with too" :d

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Checo grained his rears in the race. Definitely a bit overzealous on the throttle then. Perhaps nervous of winning.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
14 Jun 2022, 00:11
Checo grained his rears in the race. Definitely a bit overzealous on the throttle then. Perhaps nervous of winning.
He has won a GP for the last 3 years straight nvm been in F1 for ages. I would hope it's not nerves...
A lion must kill its prey.